How Couples Therapists Rebuilt Their Relationship After Breakup

Breakups Suck. Here’s How to Not Screw Up the Rebuild.

Ah, breakups. The emotional equivalent of getting kicked in the teeth—repeatedly. Whether it’s a slow, painful unraveling or a dramatic explosion, the result is the same: a cocktail of heartbreak, confusion, and questioning every life choice you’ve ever made.

Been there. Done that. And in 2022, Joree and Dr. John, took their own little detour into breakup-ville. Short, but painful. And while they could’ve just slapped a Band-Aid on it and called it a day, they did something different—they got intentional and went deeper.

In this episode, they’re pulling back the curtain on how two couples counselors healed their relationship after breakup—the tools, the habits, and the mindset shifts that made all the difference. Because let’s be real: just wanting a great relationship isn’t enough. You’ve gotta do the work—and not just the half-assed, “We should really talk more” kind.

 What Is Covered in This One:

💔 Why John & Joree’s first attempt at “fixing things” fell flat (and why yours probably will too)
💡 The daily & weekly habits that actually created deeper connection
🎯 How to *really* make your partner feel seen, heard & valued (Hint: It’s not just “quality time”)
🔥 The tiny shifts that make a massive difference in long-term love
🛠️ The tools used to avoid falling back into old, toxic patterns

Look, relationships are the foundation of your happiness and health. If yours is feeling a little shaky—or if you’re *rebuilding* after a breakup—John & Joree have been there, and they’ve got some battle-tested insights to share.

Hit play now and start making the shifts that could save your relationship.

🚀 Listen in & Level Up Your Love Life! 🚀

To listen to this revealing and powerful episode on Podomatic, click here.

To watch the video, simply click the.Play button below.

 

If you are old school, like John and Joree, and you like to read shit until your eyes burn, the transcript is below. Bring your reading glasses!

Breakups Suck. Here’s How to Not Screw Up the Rebuild w/ Top Couples Counselors, Dr. John Schinnerer and Joree Rose, LMFT – Transcript

Dr. John Schinnerer: Hey everybody, this is Dr. John with the Evolved Caveman Podcast, and I am back today with my lovely and talented fiancée, Jory Rose. 

Joree Rose: Hello! We are here to do another joint episode together, because not only is this super fun for us, and Super important to share these tools, but we’ve gotten amazing feedback from that last episode that we did.

And so we’re committed to being more vulnerable, sharing more of what we’ve gone through. So that way we can really help support other couples in strengthening their relationship. 

Dr. John: Yeah the feedback has been somewhat overwhelming and incredibly positive. I just had a director of a VP of organizational development tell me that this was the first podcast episode he’s ever listened to.

He took notes on it. It was so important and he was going immediately home to debrief with his girlfriend who had also listened to the podcast and he was saying that it gives them language to put on what’s [00:01:00] going on in their relationship. So I think there’s something really important and powerful here.

And in this episode, We are going to go into some of the more important tools and practices that we did in order to heal ourselves after getting back together. 

Joree: Yeah, and these are things that I think we tried to do before him, but maybe didn’t do to the extent that was effective. For maintaining the strength of our relationship and at the root of it was really being able.

There are many things at the root of it, but I think foundationally, as we always say, believing change is possible because if we had gotten back together and thought why even bother? It’s just going to be the way that it always was. He’s not going to change. She’s not going to change. She’s never been able to do this.

She’s always been this way. So let’s talk a little bit about this because you and I also. When we were are working with couples and couples data. So how do I know if I should stay in this relationship? We always talk about a [00:02:00] growth mindset as being foundational in partnership. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I think we’ve got to drill down into that, making the conscious choice to believe change is possible because I think for me, I was like, Oh yeah, change is possible.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Oh, yeah. I’ve got a growth mindset about relationship skills, but what I’m talking about in this. In particular is getting really granular and looking at what are those specific behaviors that are causing trouble in the relationship that you need to take or that I needed to take a look at and say, I haven’t been able to change this in 50 plus years.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I’m going to make a conscious decision to believe that I can change this with perseverance and effort. And the F the behavior that I was looking at in particular was that getting flooded and stonewalling when we were in disagreement, because I had known that was a weakness of mine in relationship and had never had success.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: and changing it. And then, I got [00:03:00] into internal family systems, which for those of you don’t know, just briefly, it’s, this belief that we’re all a little bit multiple personality disorder, that we have a core personality. And then we have these parts that kind of circle around that core personality.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And the parts are younger pieces of self that came into being due to trauma or difficulty or challenge at younger ages. And they come out at certain times to enact really old defensive strategies that no longer work. And so I remember driving down to LA by myself and listening to No Bad Parts by Dick Schwartz and really going through the exercises and having conversations with this part of me that would get flooded during disagreement that would stonewall that would shut down.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I remember, talking to a Much younger part of me, maybe six or seven, who was saying, look, all I’m trying to do is protect you from getting hurt from women again. And I was like, oh yeah, that, that [00:04:00] makes a lot of sense. And so I had to let him know, hey, look, you’re safe, I’ve got you, you’re secure, and I’m happy to promote you to kind of chief advisor in my head, and you always have my ear.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And at the same time, you’ve got to let me, the adult me, the core me, Have the final say in how I act and think and feel in these difficult moments because what we’re talking about here is maybe five or ten minutes out of Weeks of time like it’s you know, it’s not like this is me Even half the time, it’s these really tiny segments of time where the worst of you or the worst of me comes out.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And if I may share from my experience on that other side was logically, I could say to you, I’m not your mom, I’m not your ex, treat me differently. But it’s not that logical, right? We’re talking about emotionally embedded. [00:05:00] For lack of a better word, trauma responses, right? We talked about my trauma response in our last episode of Anxiety, and I think this was perhaps a trauma response for you.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: That shutdown was a self protection. Your brain saying, keep me safe. And it wasn’t about me being logical of, hey, I’m not these other women in your life. Don’t treat me as such. It was much deeper and embedded in that. And I remember once you started to share some of that IFS work with me, There were times with your permission in the middle of some Not super deep disconnections.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I would try to say, Hey, John, can I talk to the part of you that is shutting down right now. I know you guys listening or thing. Okay you guys are two therapists. You guys can do this. And yet it’s also a decision to shift the language and how you communicate during these moments. You don’t have to be You know, trained and, be guiding others in this work to just understand that this was a very valuable tool.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And [00:06:00] there were times where I could ask you, I remember one time on Costa Rica, when we were there over the summer, I said, Hey, what’s the part of you that’s upset right now? And you were able to do that. And that was also helpful because now this was in an effort of connection, as well as healing, as well as Regulating yourself and 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: it changes the dynamics, right?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Because it’s no longer me. That’s the problem It’s a part of me that I can externalize And so then it can be you and me against this other part In some way because someone was telling me just last night at the men’s monthly dinner That you know, as long as it’s me and her against the world, we’re fine It’s when one of us gets tired or worn down or stressed or Overwhelmed that the wheels fall off and I think that’s true for all of us 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So that was a really big piece, but it started to give you the confidence of, wow, I actually can change this. And my guess is you only had to have a few experiences of seeing it showing up [00:07:00] differently to then harness that and build upon that. And then I, in a practice of gratitude and appreciation, which we’ll go into more in a few minutes, could really honor that to give you the positive reinforcement.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So we always say, validate the behaviors you wish to continue to see. So the more I could acknowledge what I see is you doing the work, even if you’re not all the way back to me yet, emotionally, as long as I can validate the process, that will give you more regulation. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I think that’s 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: a big 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: point in the sense of, I don’t think I’m going to be perfect at this.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: It’s not like I snap my fingers and it goes away. I think that I’ve gotten better at it. I think that the frequency with which it happens has gone down. I think the length of time that I’m stuck in that place is shorter and the intensity of it has come down. And so I’m always looking at that in terms of duration, intensity, frequency, because I think,[00:08:00] 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: and I think it’s important to note that. I’m not perfect at this and I don’t actually anticipate ever being perfect at it, but the goal is to become better at it. And so I look at the fact that the frequency with which this happens has gone down quite a bit. I look at how long I stay stuck in that state and note that it’s become much shorter.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And so I’m always looking at. Duration, intensity, frequency, has the duration of it gone down? Is the intensity less and does it happen less frequency? Because I think it’s important, especially for partners to note, if you see improvement in any one of those areas, that’s still improvement. Even if it’s not the improvement you want to see, let’s say, because most times we’re looking at intensity, right?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: He’s still getting as angry as he was, but is it happening less frequently? Yeah, it’s happening, once a month instead of once a week. That’s improvement. And to your point, I think it’s critical to compliment the behavior or reward the behavior you want to see. I [00:09:00] think most people are not very good at that and we just focus on what they’re not doing.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And if you want to see behavior change in someone you love, you got to give them props when you see them making the effort. You got to focus on the effort more so than the outcome. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And to your point. And in more vulnerability, I would say from summer, after he came back from Costa Rica in June, I would say it has been like the smoothest sailing it’s ever been.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And we just recently had a disconnect and that was the first time in almost three and a half, four months. And the intensity, frequency and duration. The frequency, it was one. In a handful of months, the intensity was, I would say, much. Smaller on that scale, and it didn’t last that long. We got ourselves out of it much, much quicker.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I was getting stuck in a little bit of a loop of that, of the disconnect in my own head of Oh, these old stories are still here. Like the [00:10:00] old narratives are still showing up. And I had to give myself compassion of, look, these are deeply embedded narratives. My abandonment story. I’m too much.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: You’re a worthiness story. You’re not going to be good at, validating my needs enough. And I had a. Realize that may never ever go away, but if it shows up with less intensity, frequency, and duration that’s a huge improvement and our ability to repair and get out of it is actually the most important part of that.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I think this might be a good thing to, to name around really good repair attempts and abilities to reconnect after disconnection. And so many couples have an argument. They get their anger out. They go to sleep. They sleep it off. They wake up and they keep going on with their every day and they don’t actually repair.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And that one of the things that we did, which I think was massive [00:11:00] along these lines. And I think, we’ve talked about the two sides to repair. So there’s making the repair attempt and then there’s receiving the repair attempt well, and you got to work on both those. However, I think the other thing that we did, which I think is largely credit to you is.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: We would have a disagreement and then we would circle back to the disagreement a day, two, three, seven days later when we were calm and we knew we both agreed to come at it with curiosity and objectivity as much as we could and go back and dissect what happened to look at where did I get triggered?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: What happened? What could we do differently? Was it a tone of voice thing? Was it how it was said? Was it a content thing? What was brought up? Was this about us? Was this about, a past relationship? Was this about childhood? Was this about trauma? That was really helpful because then you can, and sometimes we’d go Revisit these disagreements [00:12:00] four or five, six times, which at first I was like, Oh shit, we got to talk about this again.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And it was painful at first. And I think it’s also highly effective if you want to have a happy, thriving relationship to begin to be curious about what are the triggers so that we can begin to reduce them and to step more carefully and gently around your partner’s insecurities or triggers.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And this is a really big deal. And I’m glad you’re bringing this point up because I think for many years when I would bring it back up, your common response would be, I thought we already dealt with this. Aren’t we done? And if I’m not done, we’re not done. Like that. That’s fundamentally, if one of you is not feeling connected, the partnership is It’s not going to feel connected.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And so if you’re that partner who doesn’t like it when the other one continues to bring something up, assume positive intent. If you can assume that they’re not here to rehash what you did wrong, [00:13:00] but like you said, that curiosity and compassion so we can understand what are the patterns. That we keep getting stuck in because this is something I focus on a lot with clients.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: There’s the details and there’s the patterns. The details are what the fight was about. That, that’s going to change every time, but we’re likely repeating ongoing patterns. And that. Is what I’m curious about, so where we can create the change, because the details are going to change day to day, depending on your mood or how busy our day was, how much sleep we got, how good we’re, that’s just going to be what it is.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: But the more we can recognize the pattern. Also, the less personally we can take it. It makes me think of like, when you talk about the more education you can have on let’s say dealing with a narcissist. Then you can depersonalize the pattern and just say, Oh, this is just what’s happening, right? I think we get so triggered in partnership because we over personalize every step of the way.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: When [00:14:00] I like that idea of once you can recognize the game, i. e. the dynamics, you can begin to step out of the game. Yeah. Because if I can say, Oh yeah, this is just Jory’s trauma response to abandonment, I can take that less personally and then I can focus on supporting you versus get to, if I take it personally, then I’m going to attack back with anger.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Easier said than done from time to the moment, which is why that revisiting is really helpful. And assuming positive intent that I’m not here to be a nudge, I’m not here to put you down or to shame or blame you for the disconnection, but remembering, Hey, we’re on the same team. My goal is for us to be as connected as possible.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And that assuming positive intent thing, I think is, it just fascinates the hell out of me in the sense that whenever we first get into a relationship, I think we see our partner through rose colored glasses, right? They can do no wrong. They’re amazing. Everything they do is perfect. And over time, as those little hurts, [00:15:00] resentments, annoyances, add up and accumulate, that lens, my belief is, slowly goes from all positive, to more negative, to mostly negative, and in some cases, to all negative.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I think this is somewhat inevitable in most relationships, or it’s common, let’s put it that way. And so I think one of the things you can do about it is just be aware of the dynamic, and then have Occasional conversations with your partner. Hey honey, I get the feeling like we’re getting into a little bit of pessimistic interpretations.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Of each other’s actions. How about if we make a concerted effort to go back to Assuming positive intent because i’m not here to screw you. I’m not here to make your life harder I’m trying to help out but it just doesn’t feel like it’s being interpreted that way and the classic example We have is, the client that brought flowers home to his wife and the wife was so negative and pessimistic She was like, why the hell did you bring home flowers?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I hate flowers. They’re just gonna die What a waste of money and you’re like, oh, [00:16:00] you know when you get to that point you’re in trouble. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah and I think Our old dynamic would have even had me anxious about saying, Hey hun, can we focus on the positive? Because I think the old pattern would have, you would have over personalized.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I would have walked on eggshells a little bit about that. That would have been harder for me years ago than it would for me now. I feel much more confident given the growth that we’ve had to be able to say, Hey babe, I’m noticing a little negative lens, either what’s coming up for you right now, or can you assume positive intent here or just having that curiosity?

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I think you would receive that much differently now than you ever would have in the past. That believing positive change is possible, and I just want to ask you one question, because for some couples who really want to believe change is possible, and outside of doing psychedelics to rewire your brain, is it, for you, was it as simple [00:17:00] as I don’t want to lose Dori.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I’ve never had a big enough motivation to believe this change is possible. What really was it for you that made that decision? Was it me as the motivation after being out there and dating a bit, recognizing I, I really don’t want to lose her. Or is it, I’m tired of this pattern. I know I can do different because cognitively believing it and then enacting it is not always as easy.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. I think there’s a few things in there. One is You know prior to breakup, I think I got resigned and A bit of feeling defeated where I was just screw it. I can’t seem to change this pattern And so I was really frustrated with myself 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I think your response you would say to me even during the breakup of i’m just better off alone Like I don’t even think I should be in relationships.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. Yeah. I’m no good at this relationship thing, which is shame By the way, you know that but just for the listeners and so then I think yeah dating being out there being broken up Really made me realize how much I care for you and how much [00:18:00] I love you and how rare you are and gave me an incredibly high level of motivation to look at some of these things in myself.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Therapist: And then I also had the realization that, wow, I do have a growth mindset in, I don’t know, 95%. Of life, but the areas that were Confounding me or frustrating the hell out of me. We’re in that five percent And so I think I had just had this unconscious attitude of It’s never going to change. And so once I realized that I was like Shit, that’s not going to work because I mean i’ve seen so many clients come in to see me over the last 30 years That are you know, very depressed and they’re like, you know I need help.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: But then they’re like no, it won’t work for me. Doesn’t work. Tried it. Nope. That works for other people, not for me. And their conviction that nothing will help their conviction that nothing can change ensures [00:19:00] that no change will happen. Versus if you believe change is possible, I’m pretty sure we can find a way to make change possible.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And so I just had to realize at a very tiny, specific, granular level that I was holding onto that belief about these one or two particular behaviors. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Therapist: Yeah. And I want to thank you for that, just, that personal piece to it. And for you listening, if you’re in that relationship, believing you can’t change, but you also aren’t convinced.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: You’re fighting for the partner you have, I would just advise, go with the belief change as possible, even if you aren’t certain about this partner, because that’s going to help no matter what, whether you’re fighting for this relationship or you’re going to move on to the next one. I do believe a big piece of that, and this isn’t just my ego or my pride.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I do believe a big piece of that was about me. You realize, Oh shit, I don’t want to lose her. And I, I’m motivated to keep fighting. [00:20:00] To keep her and Ideally, you would have come to that conclusion no matter what so that you can get out of a pattern that you had never been otherwise able to get out of. So it’s a good mindset to adopt, even if you aren’t certain about the partner you currently have, if you’re in question about that.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And I think the other part that enters into this. And not so much for us, but I think in general for couples that I see, or that we see, is this concept of anger. And I say this, I’m going to say mostly for the men, it’s not just men. That to the extent we get stuck in that anger dynamic, especially in a partnership, we are externalizing all blame onto our partner.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And we are completely cutting ourselves off from the possibility of introspection and change. And one of the first steps is really getting past that anger to look at, what’s my part in this? What am I responsible for? What’s the work that I need to do? [00:21:00] Because, we’ve worked with a lot of men and women or husbands and wives and I think in general, the women are more open to work, open to growth, open to learning relationship skills.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I think that’s partly how it’s about how women are socialized versus men. And, so I just want to encourage the men out there to be open to doing their own work, be open to getting past the anger to the hurt that you’re experiencing and then asking, what do I need to do to make things better?

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: What’s my responsibility? Because I can’t tell you how many couples I’ve talked to where the husband’s She just needs to change. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Therapist: Yeah. I want to bring up one thing and I just pulled up a document that I want to share a little bit of because I don’t want to spend too long because I want to get back to more about you and I did, but I think this is a really important component to add on to the anger piece.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Therapist: And one of the things that we always get curious about is depression underlying that? And what I wanted to share is that depression looks different in men and women, [00:22:00] and not everyone recognizes that because many people think depression just looks the same, which is sad, no motivation, curled up and just hopeless and helpless.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And yes, that may be true. But we also know through research that it’s going to be different in men and women. And this is another level of curiosity, which is. Some of that male dynamic is that externalization of blame, more irritable, more suspicious or feeling attacked or overreact or as women, so men turn that outward.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And when women are feeling this, they turn it inward more self blamed, sad, tearful, sleep more, whereas the men might have, trouble sleeping. With drawing, she might feel slowed down or more anxiety. So I think it’s an important component to add that if there is anger or if there’s other factors coming up that are getting in the way of the relationship, it’s always a good question to say, Hey, what’s underneath that?

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Cause it might not just [00:23:00] be, on the surface level of anger. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Thank you for bringing that up. Because I think when I look at men and I see Irritability, impatience, externalization of blame, rigid thinking. I’m wondering, huh, I wonder if there’s a degree of depression there at this point in my career.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Marriage Therapist: And of course, most men are like, I’m not depressed because how can like, it’s not masculine to be depressed or sad. That’s pussy stuff. The truth is that we are human as well as male. And so we’re going to feel everything on the emotional spectrum. We’re just trying to suppress it and hide from it generally because of how we’re socialized.

Joree Rose, Top Marriage Therapist: Yeah. So thank you so much for believing that change was possible. I really value that you did that work because it was a very integral part of our healing and reconnection and ability to be where we’re at now. So 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I’m publicly thanking you moving on to some of the other things that we did that were really necessary.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: [00:24:00] Okay. Okay. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: So one of the things, one of the things that I brought in is this concept of a gratitude massage, which I learned about during our breakup. And the idea is that you get into the right environment, go to the bedroom, you disrobe, let’s hope the little ones are out of the room right now for this, but you get naked and one partner lays face down on the bed.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: The other partner proceeds to give them a massage on the backside, the back for 10 minutes while coming up with every compliment. And every reason to be grateful that they are grateful for having their partner in their life. And then you flip over and you do another 10 minutes and then you trade and you see how long you can go.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: But it’s this amazing practice, A, in terms of learning different ways to be grateful for your partner, values, emotions, communication, hard work, effort, little things [00:25:00] that they do. And it’s a practice in Taking in the good, which we can get to a little bit later. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: How was that exercise for you? 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Oh, it was amazing on a variety of levels.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Number one, anytime, you’re going to offer up massage. I’m game. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: What hits your two, top. Love languages as well, touch and words of affirmation, like 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: massage specifically is a high level of, on the physical touch scale, but to be able to pair loving touch with loving words and to get out of any negative mindset thinking, does he really mean this?

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Is he just saying this? Oh, did he just want sex? And that’s not what I would think. But I think it could be easy for some people to have barriers to receive it. So you’re also pairing relaxation techniques. It’s going to inherently slow you down for couples who might [00:26:00] have trouble with intimacy.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: This is a great entree into that without forcing or expect, not forcing, expecting sex to come next. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: You can also do it clothed if you want, but 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: That’s less fun. And I absolutely. I loved this because there was so much focus on the negative for so long that this was an intentional space to focus on the good.

Joree Rose, Best Marriage Therapist: And oftentimes when we’re giving compliments to someone, the habitual response is to just immediately reciprocate, right? And say, Oh, I love you too, or, Oh, I appreciate that and what you did, but to be able to just shut up and listen and receive. It’s a practice at time. Yeah, to practice 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Best Marriage Therapist: taking the compliment into your heart, to realize that people are better at spotting our positive traits than we are ourselves most times.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And so deciding to [00:27:00] believe that the compliments are sincere and true, and then letting those compliments sit inside of you and fill you up, it’s, it, that takes practice. It’s. And it could take years. That’s all from Rick Hansen, right? Taking in the good, and that’s great shit. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: It’s really good. And to make it a little bit more titillating, I even know early on in our relationship, it was a practice for each of us just to receive things sexually without immediately reciprocating.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And if you’re listening and be like why should I just sit there and receive isn? I’m not selfish. No. Like it, it’s actually a gift to your own self to be present and allow to take in what your partner’s offering to you, whether that’s words or touch a sexual act. An act of service, and to not feel the need to immediately dismiss it through reciprocity.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And it’s an act of love and adoration and worship at some level. Yeah. And [00:28:00] so to be able to take it in and be grateful for what it is that, that’s a practice. It took us some work. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. So the gratitude massage. It’s 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: amazing. Yeah. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Highly recommend. Thank you for that. One of the things that, had gotten in our way was we just didn’t have enough time together.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And, I know our reasons for that, too. And, part of our, challenge of not living together post divorce with kids, where we’ve got, the majority of our custody of each of our kids, and always having put our kids first, was really beneficial for many years. And then it became more problematic over time.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And during our recovery after breakup, we made a commitment to see each other every day. And it came at a cost, like there were times where that meant you didn’t go to the gym in the morning, or I didn’t, do my meditation and journaling like I would normally do in the mornings, and it could be as little as 30 minutes to an hour, but to make the daily [00:29:00] commitment to say you’re important enough to me that I’m going to put everything else aside that I would otherwise say is important, To prioritize our time together and that was a really big deal and I talk with couples a lot about having a weekly check in.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I talked to a couple yesterday who were like, yeah, I still can’t find time in our week to do a check in and it’s put it on the calendar. And I say this all the time to couples and they’re like that’s not sexy. That feels weird. I said but having it on the calendar is a acknowledgement that you are prioritizing time with your partner.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Above everything else you schedule everything else in your day. Why wouldn’t you schedule a time with a person who you say is the most important thing to you? And that was a really huge offering. And I think you needed to see that for me, especially. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: It 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: In what ways? I could assume, but I’m not sure what’s helpful for you.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Because I had played, 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: [00:30:00] We, so we’re both single parents, which is a phrase that I hate, but it’s true. And I think it, things changed when I got my daughter a hundred percent of the time, which I would never do anything differently. I think that’s been amazing for her. And I 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: supported you a 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: thousand percent.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Absolutely. And it also put a strain on our relationship. It meant we couldn’t do sleepovers much at all. We didn’t really have time for each other. You’ve got your girls 80 percent of the time plus. And we had decided early on in our relationship that the kids were number one and we were number two.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And that made sense to me. And over time. I think it became more and more difficult for me because I was okay being a close number two, but over time I felt like I was a distant number two, and I felt less and less important, I felt less and less of a priority, and over time again just got resigned.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I wasn’t [00:31:00] able to hear that openly. I would get defensive around that when you would share that. And it was hard because we’re talking about our values, right? So it was a conflict in values. And oftentimes when we have top values, we can’t have both be the number one, right? There’s only one, one thing you can do at a time.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And that was really hard for me. And so I apologize. I wasn’t always able to hear that when you would share that. And I also realized, okay, now my kids are old enough where I don’t need to have them number one all the time. And let me tell you, they didn’t necessarily take that very well. And, for the first time ever, it put a strain on Some of my relationships with my girls and that they saw me prioritizing you and of course without the breakup well and having a boundary and I mean there was layers to it that they were also hurt from our breakup and didn’t [00:32:00] understand what we were going through so I, I have compassion for their confusion as well.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I. Also was like, shit, I’m not going to lose him, whatever I need to do to let him know, not just tell him, but show him he’s my priority. And if he’s hurting in this, my defensiveness around the justification for my actions is not compassionate, listening and acknowledgement. And so I, I made that commitment.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And for, I think there was. 30 days in a row that we saw each other. And I’ll be honest, it was also a 30 straight days of sex. And the majority of that was also me coming to your place. And I felt like I was making more of the effort a little bit of me coming to you. But I also needed to show you, you’re my priority.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And when we’re together. That was huge for me. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And when we’re together, we’re going to connect and [00:33:00] it’s, even if it’s outside of the sex, it was just a matter of creating the space to show and not tell. What is my highest value right now? And this would have been different, obviously, had the kids been 10 years old and not, 19 years old and 17 years old.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And so there’s an age appropriateness that I felt the ability to make that shift. But, the other thing, if you’re listening and you’re like and this isn’t just for divorced couples who are dating post divorce, but married couples don’t have time for each other. So if I could make an hour of my day to drive 10 minutes each direction to John’s and deprioritize other top values in my life and in that have the ability to connect emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and then physically, look what that did for us.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. Like just 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: imagine if you gave that time to your partner on a regular basis, because everyone’s I don’t have time. Great. Make the time. If it’s a priority, you make the time. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: [00:34:00] Yeah. And that could be date nights. It could be having lunch. It could be writing notes to your partner. It can be leaving post its on the bathroom mirror, get creative.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I once saw someone, I think it was a coach I follow online or something, say if Oprah called and said, Hey. I have spot for you tomorrow on my show. Can you be here? You would drop everything to go land on yourself on Oprah’s couch. So if you would drop everything to land on Oprah’s couch, you can drop a lot to sit next to your partner for even if it’s five or 10 minutes a day.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So I’m really grateful that I made that commitment and I’m so grateful that it meant so much to you to show me as well. Taking action. And, I think one of the things that in some of those times we would do that was really helpful was we would have check ins with each other. And my favorite way to do this was to ask the question, how did I make you feel loved [00:35:00] this week and what could I have done to make you feel more loved?

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I’ve had clients who are like, you ask that every week when I share this with And this is actually much easier than it sounds. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: But for 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: some people that became really overwhelming as I thought, as I would share that, but something really beautiful happened in which in the beginning when we would do these check ins, we still had comments around.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: How could I make you feel more love? There was actual feedback there. Like we were still working on and working through what we both needed. And there was safety in that container to share. Hey, here’s what would make me feel more loved this week. And then we got so good at giving that feedback and then making that change.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: It’s been weeks since we’ve had a response of, I could have felt more loved this week by you doing X, Y, or Z. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: When the other thing I loved about that is by asking the [00:36:00] question, how did I make you feel love this week and sometimes that would happen several times a week, the question, but it’s again, a chance and an opportunity to practice gratitude and appreciation for what you were doing.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. In a variety of areas of life, whether it was for me or for your daughters or at work. Yeah. And I think that’s a really good practice just to help to train our minds, to focus on the positive, since we know we all have a negativity bias and without training, we naturally over focus on the negative.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: We got to find a way to counter that. It’s just not helpful in relationship. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. Yeah, that was big. I love doing those check ins. I think it’s fantastic. And I think it’s really vulnerable for a lot of people and they don’t necessarily have the language to do it. If you’re listening and you’re like, wow, that feels really big.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: My partner and I are far from that. Then start small, build to that and maybe you [00:37:00] can. Start with the little things. Thank you for emptying the dishwasher that gratitude and appreciation can extend far beyond what you actually realize as we talk about with our client. Most couples don’t do that.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I like the idea of making a game out of it, so can you catch your partner doing the smallest thing possible and thank them for it or what’s the smallest thing you can catch or pick up and part of it’s training yourself to be aware. And seeing what they are doing, that’s good. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I’ll give you a real time gratitude that I haven’t shared with you yet, because I actually forgot.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yesterday, you came over, and when you parked outside, you pulled in the garbage can. Thank you so much for that. You’re 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: welcome. I 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: always appreciate when you pull in a garbage can when You see one outside and it’s not just because it’s blocking your spot to park. You genuinely do it to be helpful.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I forgot to say thank you for that yesterday. So thank you for doing that. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: You are welcome. [00:38:00] 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So one of the things that, I used to get frustrated with you about is when I would give you a compliment and you couldn’t take it in. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I would say, thanks. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And that used to bug me. I used to tell you it would bug me because it felt dismissive that you couldn’t actually receive it.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And you’ve gotten much, much better at actually taking it in. And it’s so silly that your response to my compliment used to be annoying to me because I felt like I want you to see what I see in you. But I think once you were able to get out some of, out of some of those shame stories, you were actually able to see it.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And, I think a lot of this has to do with just in general and commenting on relationships. I was thinking as we were preparing for this about complacency and how I believe complacency in relationship is the silent killer of relationships. That as soon as we become complacent, as soon as we get into that hedonic [00:39:00] treadmill or taking our partner for granted and just assuming that they’re going to be there today, tomorrow and down the road, because we’re married.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Is the death knell of relationship. I think, we’ve got to understand just how important your relationship is. It’s a, if not the foundational pillar of a happy, thriving life. Because if man, if your relationship at home is fucked up, nothing else in your life is going to be going well, because that’s going to be weighing on you every step of the, every step of the day.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And so it’s really just realizing how important that relationship is and resolving to work on it. To put positive deposits into the bank account, so to speak, and to get better at communicating around it. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah, I remember once years ago, I had a client, a couple in my office, and he had said to me like I love her, but divorce is never an option.[00:40:00] 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I looked at him very seriously and I said, divorce is always an option if you and my favorite spiritual teacher, Dan Millman, he once said, until you can accept death, you can’t accept life. And so I took that to until you can accept divorce, you can’t fully be in relationship or accept the breakup.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I don’t want to sound too over dramatic about it, but every moment’s an opportunity to turn towards one another, right? We look at Gottman’s work of a turning towards and I know you’re not going to turn towards your partner a hundred percent of the time and If you’re turning away Or being neutral, which is more of a negative actual response than a negative response to that bid for attention, it’s gonna add up.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And, one of the things that I always say is we all just want to be seen, heard, and validated and acknowledged, right? And if we’re not turning towards and making that a priority, It is [00:41:00] a silent killer. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I love that idea of bids for attention, right? These small bids for each other’s attention that we make all day, every day.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And, when you ignore or meet one of those bids negatively, that’s a small drop in the bucket of negative emotions. And those suckers accumulate over time. And I love the idea because it points out just how small these hurts can be. And if you really grasp an awareness of that and understand this exquisite sensitivity that we all have emotionally, whether or not we want to acknowledge it, whether or not we’re aware of it, I think the vast majority of us are not aware of it, but I think that’s what we have to work towards is.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Increasing our emotional awareness, increasing that emotional granularity, increasing the awareness of the emotional impact that we’re having for positive or negative on our partner. Yeah. Rather than ignoring it or suppressing it or being defensive or arguing against it. [00:42:00] 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And adding on to that, but also going to another practice that I think we really gotten much better at.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And again, we’re never going to be a hundred percent. And I think me more than you I need to accept it’s never going to be a hundred percent. I think I might have some high expectations there and that I settled for 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: good enough. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And I’m working on that. I want. I had a very pivotal experience at a bat mitzvah and the Torah portion that was being read at that bat mitzvah was like the opening book, like day one, book one, God created the world and it was good.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And the rabbi says, God created the world and didn’t say it was great. God said it was good. If it’s good enough for God in the world, can it be good enough for you and your relationship? So I’m not a super religious, but I love, I just feel that to a client this past week can we let good be good enough?

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And the, one of the biggest things that. I think was in our way that I am so grateful we’ve gotten so much better at is [00:43:00] that non defensive listening. And I see couples do this a lot and we were stuck in this and I think my defensiveness was just as strong as yours, but I didn’t recognize my own defensiveness because I felt so justified and righteous in my actions.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: That’s what happens. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: But look what I’m doing. I’m still doing good. I could be doing the best thing in the world, but if I’m not hearing you, then I’m not being a good partner in that moment. And so I had to recognize where I was externalizing that’s what you were doing, but I had to really hold the mirror up to myself and say, fuck, I’m doing defensive listening too.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And that was part of your challenge with me that you couldn’t get through to me. Some of the things that you were feeling because I was so justified in my actions. And again, I apologize for how long I was unable to hear that. And I think [00:44:00] we’ve both done much better in that non defensive listening.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. I accept your apology and I apologize for my own defensive listening. And I think, the non defensive listening is pretty amazing because if we consider that two thirds of issues in relationship are unresolvable, then the best we can do with those issues is merely to make sure our partner feels heard, seen, and validated.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And If we’re responding to their complaints or their criticism or their concern or their hurt with defensiveness, telling them what I’m thinking or tell them what I was doing or telling them what my intention was or telling them why I was what I was doing was good or right there. I’m not hearing them.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I’m not hearing that person. And so it’s it really. I think we’re still practicing this. We’re still learning this. But, when. There were several times where you got angry at me and I didn’t respond. I simply [00:45:00] listened. And at the end, and I think I probably validated too and said, I can see where that would make you really angry.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And then at the end said, thank you for sharing your anger with me. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And it’s the feeling that you get after being heard non defensively it’s a weight lifted off your heart. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Is the best way I can put it. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: It’s huge. It’s really huge. And there’s also something in that, in which I think we, if people are still getting stuck in patterns of defensive listening, one of the things I like to share with clients is name your concern up front to help disarm their defenses.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So if I want to share something with you that I might Fear. You might get defensive around. I might start by saying, Hey hon, I want to be able to share something. Can you just listen for a moment? So I’m pre emptying my intention or my need, which might give you [00:46:00] a greater heads up of, okay, she’s asking me not to get defensive.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So this is a good opportunity to just enter into this listening state. Maybe take a deep breath, maybe just see if I need to get myself relaxed. So that way I can be present to what she has to say. Okay. That might be easier than just sharing something if you know this might be a trigger for your partner’s defenses.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I think the other extension of that is when you’re practicing non defensive listening, there might actually be some real merit to what you’re intending, what you’re thinking. And I would say, it’s okay to bring that up, but bring it up in a second conversation after the fact, maybe the next day.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I think it’s, and you’ve got a saying that I love, it’s something about 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Validation, then rationalization. Validate first. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Validation. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Validation, then rationalization. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah, and I don’t know about rationalization, but validation and then, sharing your intention. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I think the rationalization for me, it’s the [00:47:00] validation is going to quiet down the emotional brain.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: The rationalization is coming from a logical brain, right? So we know that the emotional brain, when it gets activated, shut down our prefrontal cortex. So all of our tools of logic, reason, rationality are not accessible when we’re in that emotional brain. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah, at least I If you can validate 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: it. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: The reason I have it at the rationalization is rationalization to me says bullshit excuse for bad behavior.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: There’s an association I have with it. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. But for me, it’s really, can we quiet down the emotional brain so we can be then, talking to the logical brain, because if I’m coming from a place of emotion and you’re responding from a place of logic, it’s two different it’s a disconnect.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: We’re missing. Yeah. We’re missing. So the validation piece first speaks to the emotional before we try to get to the logical or rational, which is easier said than done when you’re both in an emotional state.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Wow. That was a lot of [00:48:00] stuff. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. It’s a lot. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. And I think the other thing to consider is that to me, this is always a lifetime practice. All these tools are tools that we’re trying to add to our tool belt over time, ideally with the intention of making them habitual, unconscious, and automatic.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Some of those, some of the tools we talked about, I think you can get better at and get that done. Some probably will take intention and, conscious thought, but to me, there’s no more important thing. In this lifetime to work on than improving the quality of your relationships because everything else stems from that.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Absolutely. And if we look back at the Gottman’s work, they have what they call the sound relationship house. And it’s similar to, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, but unless you have a strong foundation, you can’t move higher up to shared vision of the future, shared values, so a lot of this stuff feels foundational to come back to some basics.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: [00:49:00] Curiosity, compassion, connection, getting to know each other, finding out what each other’s needs are, and trying to speak to some of the more basic ways to get to know your partner in the here and now. Because I think that’s where a lot of people get disconnected. Like we Have all of that at the beginning of a relationship, a lot of curiosity, a lot of questions, and then it goes into assumptions, which then can lead to unspoken needs and resentment.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: So we just got to get back to some of that basic, like, how would you court your partner? What would you do if you were trying to court them now? You would give them time and attention. You would give them, compliments or appreciation more frequently. You might be more, amenable to letting go of the small stuff because you’re looking for the good.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: You’d be intensely curious and ask a lot of questions, which is why I like that 36 questions exercise, because I think for so many of us, we get into a long term relationship and we just start assuming that we know our partner better than anyone else. We know what they’re thinking. We know what they’re going to say.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: We know what they’re going to do. And we stop being curious and we [00:50:00] stop learning about them. Yeah. Even though your point is that we always, we continue learning and growing, but we fail to recognize that as the partner, 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: right? Maybe we’ll put that link of the 36 questions in the show notes so people can download that and use it as a practice.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Another great tool there as we begin to wrap up is the Gottman’s have an app called card decks. And it’s, probably 15 or 16 different categories of questions to be able to have with your partner or a Sarah Perel has the card game. Where shall we begin? So there’s a lot of opportunities for conversation starters because I find that for a lot of couples have a hard time beginning.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Like this actually, Esther Pearl’s game is very athletic. Like where do we begin? Like how do we start? And so there’s a lot of good resources out there. And, again, I just want to harness what you said of, this is ongoing work. I know that you and I have [00:51:00] done an immense amount of healing in a relatively short period of time.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I look back to just where we were a year ago and it’s ironic, so I will just share it because I find dates and things interesting, but exactly one year ago today, now this is the day that you and I are recording this. This is coming out in a couple of weeks, but exactly one year ago today. It was when we had our first therapy session.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: No wonder I felt traumatized. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I know, right? And that was that two hour therapy session in which it was fucking painful and you broke up in the next day. And look at just in one year, like I’m so grateful. I’m actually grateful for the pain of the journey. I actually am. I needed to go through all of that.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: It had to break me down to rebuild me. It had to break us down to rebuild us. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: We 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: [00:52:00] did, and I thought I was awake, which was the shitty part, but that was a year ago. And now look where we are. I’m so proud of us. I’m so proud of our courage to look at ourselves because that’s hard. And I’m actually more proud of you than me because You had a harder time looking at some of those, dark spots.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: I think I was a little bit more open. I didn’t see them as well, but I wasn’t as afraid to look at them and your courage to look at them and to overcome them. I’m just incredibly proud and grateful and we’ve come a long way, baby. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Thank you. Yeah. And I think it’s, it feels so good to be here now.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And I think, the breakup was a great reminder of just how important you are to me. And how much I was willing to fight for you because one of the things we didn’t mention was the two day, six hour a day couples counseling marathon that we did with the Blooms in Santa Cruz. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And that was tough too.[00:53:00] 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Six hours of therapy back to back for two days. Honestly, that was all the commitment I needed from you to know this relationship was going to work. And we had just begun to do our work and your willingness. And you also found them, you booked it, like you, you drove that, that for me was almost enough to know he’s committed to me.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: We’re going to make this work. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: So thank 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: you for that. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: Yeah. Effort and intention. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And the day that this episode comes out, we will be in Africa with our therapist, Charlene Linda bloom on an amazing adventure. Our story will continue and we’ll share more about that. I’m sure on another episode, If this at all resonates with you and you recognize that you need some support in your own relationship and the tools that are getting in your way of deeper connection, then John and I are [00:54:00] available to work with you individually and together.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: We do amazing couples work together. Oftentimes. John will work with the man and I work with the woman, then we come together for intensives. That’s a beautiful model of doing couples work, because sometimes a barrier to the couple, or sometimes a barrier to the individual therapy, is we’re not always getting the full story.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: The a deeper truth of the dynamics is when both people are there sharing Hey, that actually didn’t happen that way. Let me help balance out some of the narrative. But when we can come together. And getting individual support and then, having support for everyone. It’s been a beautiful model for many of our clients.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: And we also have our retreat in Costa Rica in just a little about a year. And we’re going to be guiding you guys through not only the relationship skills, but the individual work to get out of our own damn way. So we can be more available to bring. And I think 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: that’s going [00:55:00] to fill up flask, fill up fast.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Oh, yeah. And by the way, we do have early bird pricing through the end of 2023. The price is going to go up at the end of the year. We do have limited space on that too. I think we only have 10 rooms that can join us. So if it’s something that you are thinking, I would jump on that. The link for that will also be in the show notes.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And the last thing I wanted to say before wrapping up is, I rarely make an ask. On this podcast, I’ve been doing it. This is my fifth year. I’ve done 200 episodes. Jory’s done over 200 episodes. And this to me is an offering of free tools to the world. Today, I’m making an ask. Because I, I think the information in the last podcast that Jory and I did together and this podcast is incredibly important and powerful.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: So if this resonated with you, if you found this useful or powerful or helpful please share it. [00:56:00] Tell other people about the podcasts. I really think we’re offering some incredible value here and it needs to get out to a wider audience. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Absolutely. Yeah. Give a rating, a review, a share. And we’ve also gotten the feedback that this is different than just people out there doing relationship podcasts and tools because there’s a lot of resources out there for relationship skills.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: But the vulnerability that we bring that this is our own experience combined with our professional tools that, that our vulnerability I know is making a difference. And I 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: love being vulnerable.

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: But yeah, thank you in advance for sharing this because we really are here to not only heal ourselves, but John and I have very deep intention to heal others and we feel in very much [00:57:00] aligned purpose that, our relationship is not one of the most important thing to us, but that we have purpose here together and we’re living that purpose in sharing us with you.

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: And so is that it for you? 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: That’s it for me for now. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: That’s it for me. So thank you very much for tuning into this episode of Journey Forward with Jory Rose and to the Evolved Caveman. 

Joree Rose, Top Couples Counselor: Thanks so much, everyone. Take care and be well. And thank you, love. I love you very much. 

Dr. John Schinnerer, Top Couples Counselor: I love you too. And we’ll see you next time.