Harnessing Gratitude For Lifelong Love – Podcast #5
In this episode of ‘Love Isn’t Enough,’ top couples counselors, Dr. John Schinnerer and Joree Rose, LMFT, discuss the importance of appreciation and gratitude for loving, thriving relationships. They explore how many couples tend to neglect these practices, despite their effectiveness in fostering positive emotions and connection. The hosts discuss key concepts such as the negativity bias, the importance of a positive to negative interaction ratio, and ways to build a culture of gratitude, especially when it may feel hard to access or receive. They also offer practical advice on expressing appreciation, even during conflicts, and the significance of role modeling gratitude for children. The episode concludes with them sharing various gratitude exercises, including the after-dark gratitude massage. If you’re interested in working with John and Joree, including our monthly master class series, which is starting again in January on how to create outstanding relationships, visit LoveIsntEnough.net. To learn more about, Dr. John, visit Guide To Self, and to learn more about Joree, visit JoreeRose.com.
Harnessing Gratitude For Lifelong Love Transcript with Top Couples Counselors, Dr. John Schinnerer & Joree Rose, LMFT
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: [00:00:00] Hello, courageous listener. It is John and Joree back with the latest episode of Love Isn’t Enough.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: John, thank you so much for that really inviting introduction to our podcast.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You are most welcome.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Did you see what I did there?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think I did. What did I do? You expressed appreciation.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Oh, I did. That was a teaser because today is all about
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Appreciation and gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yes. Which is something that we have found a lot of couples actually suck at.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And it’s sad because it’s easy. It’s free and it’s super effective.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s free. A lot of things are free except for
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: juries. I have to pay her for appreciation.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I thought you meant juries. Like you had it like as if I’m a like an item you could buy to start.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: A jury costs X amount of dollars. I know like you got me all confuzzled. It was free.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. I, yeah. [00:01:00] Put a price on it. You can’t put a price on it. It’s priceless and free. So anyway, I, one of the, one of the ways I like to think about it is that we have two buckets of emotion in us. One is for negative emotions.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: One’s for positive emotions. And most of the time we spend focused on that bucket of negative emotions, where there’s anger and fear and sadness, shame, and all that shit. We tend to try and suppress and run away from and sweep it under the rug. And then it comes out as a volcano and we lose our temper and we get mad at each other and we don’t know how to let it go and all that stuff.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And that’s part of, the equation to having a happier relationship. However, there’s another side, which is equally important and much easier. And that’s filling up the bucket of positive emotions,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: right? To go back just one second, we have those negative emotions. We have those negative experiences.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I always like to teach my clients a little bit about how our brain works, because it’s really easy to think, Oh, [00:02:00] this is just me. This is just what I do, but we have what’s called a negativity bias, which means. Our brain is going to focus on the negative.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Go ahead. You were going to say something. Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I was just going to say that we over focus on the negative by a factor of three, four or five to one. It’s quite a bit more powerful.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And it serves a purpose, right? Focusing on the negative is a survival mechanism in which our brain was designed when we were cavemen. If there was a bear in the cave or 10 fish in the sea, you could go catch and feed your family.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: What are you going to focus on the most?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, if there’s a rustle in the bushes, it pays to run away and think that it’s a life threatening.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: You’re going to pay attention to that modern day analogy of that is if you receive one criticism or 10 compliments, what are you likely to hold on to the most?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We hold on to the shitty statement,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: right?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: The criticism, because we’re like, Oh man, partly we don’t have good enough self worth to even believe the 10 compliments generally, but we don’t want to feel that again. So it’s important for us to pay attention to the negative as an [00:03:00] indicator of safety, security connection.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And also I’ve been reading that book belonging by Jeffrey Cohen, and.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think it’s just interesting that we want to belong so much. It’s a basic human need. So the mean girls dynamic or people at school teasing you, or even at work those comments leave a mark and we sit on them. We stew on them and we review them. And we’re like, is that true? Am I an asshole?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And those things don’t really serve us.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And yet, why do people keep going back to the main girl? I’d rather be connected to someone who’s not being nice to me, even though that feels shitty and doesn’t align with my values, my morals, my beliefs, my desires, but I’d rather not be alone.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, because alone from an evolutionary perspective meant death.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: If you get kicked out of the tribe, odds are, you’re going to die, right?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So this is all to say, focusing on those negative experiences, emotions is natural. It’s normal. You’re gonna focus on them even when you don’t intend to, because [00:04:00] it’s a natural human evolutionary thing.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And I like that idea that the negative emotions are loud and they, when you’re upset, when you’re really sad, when you’re really anxious, but the positive emotions.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: are fleeting and fragile. They whisper to us, they’re quiet. And so we got to learn to tune our attention into them more and pay attention so that we can spot them. One of the easiest ways is to begin doing this with each other in terms of appreciation and gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And we know from the Gottman’s who are the Researchers of marriage and relationships that is the ultimate within the field who’ve been scientifically studying marriage and relationships for what about 50 years now.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And it is one of their pillars of how to be a master versus disaster in relationship. And so there are a handful of different foundations at the Gottman’s. Show in their research and in their work to support couples. And one of the main [00:05:00] ones is building a culture of gratitude and appreciation. And we know from the couples we work with.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Just from our own, practices and observances of what we see day to day, people don’t generally do this and let’s go through some of the reasons why we think couples don’t express gratitude.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Wait. Okay. So let me explain. Let me share one of the examples that we
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: have
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: from an old, a client a long time ago where you know the husband went to pick up the girls from school and I think you asked the wife.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Did you say thank you? Did you thank your husband for doing that?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And she was like, why would I thank him? That was his job. Yeah, just because it’s his job doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate what he’s doing for you or the girls. And by him doing that quote job allowed her to go to the gym
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: and allowed
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: her to be at her job.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s so demotivating. It’s so it’s a balloon pop. It’s, and it’s so easy to just say, Hey, honey, thanks so much for picking up the [00:06:00] girls. I really appreciate it. And it’s what happens is because we are resistant to being appreciative. We demotivate the behaviors that we want to see in our partner.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We, that motivation wanes over time and it’s really easy to correct by just expressing sincere and authentic appreciation.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Okay. I just had a tangential thought that does relate. I’m going to bring it back, but before we go back to why couples don’t always do this, I just had a thought. So we know the experience of many couples in which.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: There’s disconnection in the relationship, and generally, when there’s disconnection, one of the things that happens is women feel shut down from intimacy and sex. And generally, when there’s a lack of sex or frequency of sex, the men tend to want more sex.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And they get resentful and hurt.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And they get annoyed.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I’ve seen it a handful of times. In which [00:07:00] a woman is afraid to even give her partner a hug for fear, he might interpret that as an open door or a green light to sex. So she’d rather not even give the hug because she’s not available for sex, even if she might want the hug, but doesn’t want to give the wrong impression of what she is available for.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So she ends up not doing it at all. I’m wondering if there’s some resistance in grad expressing gratitude in that if I’m really annoyed at my partner for like fundamental reasons, that if I express gratitude. I wonder if there’s an impression that maybe he’ll think everything else is fine by expressing this could you see the parallel of what I’m trying to draw and I’m curious about that because we fundamentally have issues and I’m thankful for all the little stuff it might appear.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: As if I’m happier than maybe I actually am, even [00:08:00] if I’m just putting a small drop in that positive emotion bucket, even when there’s still a lot bigger negative emotions.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And I think
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: was that clear in the parallel?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I was right. Okay, cool. And, so we’re talking about reasons why we don’t show appreciation, I think,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: because we know it’s free.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And easy. But I think for some reason, and maybe this has to do with the negativity bias. I’m not really sure why we do this, but I’ve every couple I’ve ever seen seems to do this. And I think I did it my own marriage. I don’t know, but I, it has to do with how we look at behavior change and how do we change our loved one’s behavior?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And I so often I see one partner in a couple. Bitching, nitpicking, nagging, complaining, poking, insulting, shaming. Yeah. And so we try and use the stick rather than the carrot to shape behavior of our partner. And [00:09:00] it just, it doesn’t work.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I saw that when I was 14 years old at my first job, I was a TA at my synagogues Hebrew school with a kindergarten teacher who was really harsh with these little kids.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And at 14 years old, I had the awareness to realize yelling at them is not going to motivate them. And I remember believing at 14 years old, she’s trying to shame them into better behavior rather than encourage them. Into more aligned behavior than what she was seeking. And yeah, I think it happens around us a lot.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. If I yell at you, you’ll do as I say, really? Because if you yell at me, I’m going to think you’re an asshole and I actually don’t want to do what you say. Or I just
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: get more entrenched in my behavior and I’m, I bury that anger underneath the surface and I just keep doing what I’m doing. It shows a fundamental lack of awareness of how people change and why.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It [00:10:00] just doesn’t work to insult or shame or nag them into changing something and flip it, right? Do you like your will you change your behavior? Will you lose weight because your spouse is telling you your ass looks fat in those jeans? That’s awful.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: You might get really disordered.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That’s it, I just don’t get it.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And yet we, I see it all the time or take the positive stuff for granted,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And we highlight and focus on the negative stuff that our partner is doing,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Or maybe it’s the partner who comes home on time at the end of the workday, five, four days a week.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And then one day. It’s a few minutes late and then gets yelled at for the one day late and not at all acknowledged for the other times that they showed up.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That’s a really good point too. I remember one of my favorite commercials when I was growing up on, watching Saturday morning cartoons was the church of Latter day Saints.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And I remember there was a scene of a kid running home from school and he burst through the front door and he’s got his report card in his hand. And he [00:11:00] yells up the stairs, oh my God, all A’s. And he’s expecting, some praise or some love or something positive back. And the mom from the top of the stairs, you don’t even see her.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You just hear her voice. Yeah. But did you mow the lawn? And so if you think that was for a
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: church.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know what the point was, but it just left a mark, obviously. I don’t know that commercials from my childhood, but I think I felt some kinship with it because it speaks to our need to, again, over focus on what the person is not doing and completely ignore.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: All the good that they are doing. And if you want to shape someone so that whatever, they’re a better communicator, they’re more respectful. They want you more in bed. They want to lose weight. Like you got to focus on small steps of effort and you got to work on praise and appreciation and gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s also one of those things that. As couples struggle with appreciation and gratitude, they [00:12:00] also. want their kids to be polite and say please and thank you. And I’ve got to wonder, are they actually role modeling saying please and thank you? My kids were growing up. We really were.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Sticklers about please and thank you and taught my girls to be like, mommy, can I have that? Hi mommy. Can I please have that? Please? Thank you. Like we overdid it because they’re not going to say it twice in one sentence. But if they take one of those, then they’ll get there.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I do have to say my ex husband was always very appreciative of me making dinner each night. And my kids from a very young age, because I got divorced when they were seven and nine. So this was really early memories for them of imprinting into their mind. I remember my girls much later when I was divorced and it was just me, they still always thanked me for dinner.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And as a kid, you don’t really need to thank your parents for dinner because it’s implied you’re going to feed them. But my kids, by being role modeled, and then actually said to me, [00:13:00] yeah, I really remember being really young and dad always appreciating you for cooking. And I was so appreciative because we don’t often consider what are we actually role modeling to each other.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And what are our kids picking up on?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And even that example with the kids and dinner, I think a lot of times I’ll see, you got a family of, I don’t know, three kids and one or two of the kids are complaining about what mom made for dinner. Another kid won’t eat it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so again, there’s no appreciation
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: for the effort.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: There’s a
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: disdain for the food that’s being put in front of them. And that’s. Again, it’s demotivating to the person doing the cooking,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: right? At some point. Why bother if everyone doesn’t appreciate me? And I think that especially for women, and I know you’re going to say men too, in different ways, but I think especially for women, because so much of being a mom is doing acts of service for the family that go thankless.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And, that’s where women get stuck being overwhelmed and in the weeds, carrying the domestic and mental load of all the shit they do. That’s in their head, that [00:14:00] ticker tape that’s at the bottom of the CNN screen of the stocks going across. That’s in mom’s heads almost all the time. And a lot of it goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And eventually it leads to resentment and burnout. So it’s a great antidote is to recognize. Wow, shit gets done around here. Thanks. Whoever has it happen.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: When, and what you’re trying to do basically is motivate the people around you in the family, around you for a marathon, this isn’t a sprint. This isn’t let’s get through the day.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Let’s get through the week. This is let’s get through decades.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And when we do have that gratitude and appreciation, no matter how hard the work is of what we’re carrying. I’m going to feel much better doing it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. One. And so we’re going, we’re talking about reasons, not, we don’t do it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And one of the reasons I think we don’t do it particularly for men is.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It doesn’t feel natural to us. It doesn’t feel normal. And I’ve run into this also with capitalization where, we get genuinely excited about our partner’s good [00:15:00] news or anyone’s good news, which again, doesn’t feel normal at first. It feels like we’re being a cheerleader, which for a lot of men, we’re not socialized in the direction of positive emotions.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So to go there feels a little bit odd at first. And for those of you who’ve had this experience, I don’t care do it anyway. When you first started riding a bike, that didn’t feel normal either. But you still learned to ride a bike and eventually it felt normal. Any new skill is going to feel unusual and abnormal at first, but this is a really important one to practice and get better at expressing genuine positive emotion for all the stuff that people around you are doing.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So let me ask you a question based on what you were just saying, the challenge that men may have given their socialization. Would expressing gratitude unconsciously perhaps make a man feel, I don’t like, I don’t know if the word weak is the right word or
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: No not more feminine. Would it make them feel less capable of what they could do on their own by [00:16:00] acknowledging what someone has done for them?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Less stoic, perhaps. Do you see what I’m saying?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: See, I guess I would go with the more feminine piece. Actually, I would go with the positive emotions generally to men. And I think if you’re honest with yourself as a man, it feels a little bit more feminine. And so it’s
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Sweetsy and polite and
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: yeah, it’s just not an
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: expressive
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: vibration.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We, we’re at very often or have been socialized or role modeled. And so I think part of this is actually about that we’re redefining the goal of being a man to that, of having a balance between the masculine and the feminine. So you can access. All of your humanity, not just the parts of you that are in the man box.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So to give yourself permission to go there, because it really frustrates me because if we’re cutting ourselves off from the majority of positive emotions, we’re also cutting ourselves off from the possibility of happiness, in my opinion.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And we know we’re going to feel the happier we are, the more connected we are.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And appreciation is one that’s going to be one of those things [00:17:00] that helps connect us. So other reasons why people may not express gratitude. I think one of the things that I see is people actually don’t even know the language to use. They might have the feeling in their heart of it swelling and feeling gratitude in their body, but may have difficulty with accessing the right words.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I find communication struggles really common among couples,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And it can feel awkward and it might feel intimate. And if you’re in a more disconnected relationship that might feel. Like you said, unnatural from how we’re normally communicating. Cause we know that so many conversations amongst couples are really
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: transactional.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s like being at a business meeting and you’re the CEOs of your house, which by the way, you do need those business meetings to be the CEO of your house and your family. I’m not knocking that. I’m just saying, we’re looking for more intimate ways. To talk to one another
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: transactional versus what
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: relational,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: which
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: personal [00:18:00] not the to do list, not what has to get done, not who’s going where, not the schedule, not the chores that are still needing to be accomplished, but tuning into emotion.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s emotion, right? The transactional items are things you could put on a checklist and cross off.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah, it’s all logistical. It’s picking up the kids at sports. It’s picking up the kids at school. It’s who’s making dinner, but we’re not that’s and that’s necessary, but it’s not sufficient.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Again, love isn’t enough. So we’ve got to have more comfort in accessing the parts of ourselves that are emotional. And expressing those. And I think it does take some practice for a lot of men, which is interesting. It’s fascinating.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I think for women who have built up some resentment of feeling unappreciated, they might have a hard time extending appreciation if they’re not being appreciated.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: get that. And it takes two to create a pattern and only one to interrupt. I
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: love that
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: quote. Yes. And I would argue [00:19:00] it’s worth a shot. Whoever you are in the relationship, play around with expressing appreciation and gratitude and see where it gets you. See if it doesn’t that relationship less stuck.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I think we’re just listening through the reasons why it doesn’t happen. The solution is to always keep trying, but I think if someone is never being acknowledged, they’re going to have a real hard time digging into their gratitude for someone else.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. I get that.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So the other thing that I see with clients is, Oh I just wasn’t raised that way.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: We’re just not what we did. Okay. Great. How connected is the family of origin, right? How safe did you feel in those relationships? What was the ratio? Oh, by the way, we haven’t even mentioned this. We talked about how the Gottman’s have done their research and cultivating a culture of gratitude and appreciation is at the root of feeling connected.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So for years and years and years and years of their research, they reported a finding that was the goal of [00:20:00] how to get out of focusing on the negative. So there’s more drops in that positive emotion bucket. They said the goal is five to one positive to negatives. So you want to have five drops in your positive bucket for every one negative.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Even that felt like a hard goal for couples to reach. However, you want to share the recent finding, John? The most recent
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: finding in the book Fight is that, I don’t, I laugh as I say this because I don’t think I’ve ever accomplished this goal. We need a 5 to 1 ratio during arguments. During conflict.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Positive to negative. So five positive statements. Or loving statements to everyone. Criticism. I don’t put down, I don’t know. That might be too much, but, and what we’re looking for when we’re not in argument is a 20 to one. Ratio. Of positive to negative statements.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Couples start getting married.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: To five to one was a hard. Reach. And then we [00:21:00] share the, they’re like, Oh shit. We’re doomed.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And The truth is I don’t care. Think about the ratio. The percentage of times that you’re offering positive statements compared to negative statements. I don’t care where you are right now.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: What I care about is that you become aware of this idea. And slowly. Day after day practice. is it getting a little bit better?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Okay, so let’s turn the conversation a little bit because I have always been someone, correct me if I’m wrong in this relationship who has expressed a lot of gratitude to you.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Absolutely.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And you didn’t always know how to receive it. So there’s two sides of this because
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: compliments and appreciation are a little bit different. So different.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And even when I would appreciate what you were doing and did well, that I valued in the early parts of our relationship. You still couldn’t always take that in.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: [00:22:00] Yeah. It’s, it was, it’s been a practice.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And it was hard because sometimes I would extend something positive. And your response was a little dry. Do you remember what you used to say?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Thanks.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Thanks. Yeah. And it didn’t motivate me to want to continue to extend a compliment or express gratitude because it felt like you weren’t caring about what I was sharing.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And so instead of me feeling shut down from extending that, it, I courageously pointed out one day. When you say, thanks. It doesn’t make me feel like you are able to take it in and that you actually care what I’m saying. And I brought it to your attention, which I was a little cautious in the beginning of our relationship to do that.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Cause I don’t know how that would be received and you were able to work on that. So what was underneath that for you that made it difficult?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s fascinating to me. Cause I’ve talked about this. I’m going to be on a very topic with many men over the [00:23:00] years. And every man I’ve ever talked to pretty much is the same on this one.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We struggle receiving compliments. And I don’t know if we want to throw appreciation into the same bucket, but it’s quite
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: handsome. And that’s
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: right.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: If I say you look really handsome in that shirt, I don’t know about that’s gratitude, but it definitely is appreciation of you. So it’s still that drop in that positive bucket.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And that would be the thing.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: For sake of this argument, let’s say they’re
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: the same. Okay, good.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And what I would, what happened for me is there’s a bunch of reasons I couldn’t take in a compliment going way back to my childhood, and it was things like it made me uncomfortable. It was embarrassing. I didn’t like being the center of attention.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I would doubt the speakers intention oh, they don’t really mean that they’re just trying to blow smoke up my ass. They just want something from me. And so there’s a bunch of reasons that we resist compliments. And I think that. It’s one of the most important practices that we [00:24:00] can do to understand that often, most often people outside of yourself can see your positive strengths and attributes way more clearly than you can.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And to work on, to trust that and to work on receiving the compliment. Which means being open to it, letting your guard down, putting the armor down, imagining taking that compliment into your heart. Imagine that compliment filling up your heart and spilling out of your heart, and then slowly seeping into every cell of your body.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And you just have to sit with the compliment for maybe 10 or 15 seconds. But what that’s doing is it’s rewriting the neural pathways in your brain to begin to believe it. Yeah. And to begin to get better at receiving kind words and it’s an incredibly important practice.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. It’s not easy to take it in and that kind of devs tales on Rick Hanson’s work, Rick Hanson.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: [00:25:00] Rick Hansen is brilliant. He combines psychology, neuroscience, and Buddhism. And my favorite book of his is called Buddha’s brain. But there’s also hardwiring happiness or just one thing. He’s got a book on resilience and he’s got a lot of great stuff, but it’s a practice of taking in the good.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And, one of the things when I teach my clients about the brain, it’s, the negativity bias, the good news is. We can rewire that. And just because our brain is going to be what Rick Hansen calls Velcro to the negative and Teflon to the positive, the mindfulness practice is having the awareness.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: As soon as you notice you’re focusing on negative thoughts, you can be aware of it, not judge yourself for doing it. Cause again, we have that negativity bias. It’s normal and shift your mind’s attention. good. Dwell on the good in your life. And we know that wherever your intent, wherever your energy and intention goes, it’s going to [00:26:00] grow.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: If you’re focusing on the negative and ruminating on the negative, that’s going to grow. If you focus on the good and ruminate on the good, that’s going to grow. Which would you rather focus on?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It also makes me think of, we’ve seen a lot of issues around self esteem and self worth in our clients.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And I think pretty much everyone on the planet has struggled with self worth at times, not really sure why that’s the case, maybe the negativity bias, but
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: the inner critic is really loud,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: right? And it makes me think that focusing on the good or taking in the good or, practicing, taking in those compliments well, I is one of the ways to increase your self esteem and your self worth along with, I love.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Training yourself to think the loving kindness. Thoughts of may I feel worthy? Yeah. Feel worthy of love. May I feel worthy of success? May I feel worthy of happiness? That kind of practice, I think is awful. Also quite effective.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Absolutely. There’s so many things that go with this [00:27:00] compassion practice.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: right? We often can have greater compassion for others than we do for ourselves. It’s because that damn inner critic. Talks to ourselves in our own mind. Like we wouldn’t even talk to someone else. We don’t like, talk about a mean girl, that inner critic, is pretty much an asshole. And yet it tries to shame us into better behavior.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So just like we were saying, we wouldn’t do it with our partner. We could extend that same practice to ourself and just notice, man, how many negative things am I thinking about myself today?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So let’s go back to appreciation and gratitude and just talk about how to increase. Appreciation and Gratitude, and what that looks like and sounds like because I think most people will mistakenly think that it’s about the really big things and I don’t think it’s that at all.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It can be.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: But
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: the best stuff is the little tiny things.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: How about this if death if divorce, if marriage is death by a thousand paper cuts, it’s saying that it’s the small things that add up over time that create the bigger problem. So we could [00:28:00] reverse that. And we can say connection is through the small things,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: the points of connection,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: right?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s and the Gottman’s, call it small things often. So I think it’s a great thing to, to role model that. So let’s talk about how some of the ways that we express gratitude.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I like thinking of it as a game and a game in which you’re trying to catch your partner doing good. And you can extend this to your, the kids in the family.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You can extend it to coworkers, whatever. There’s a lot of ways you can go with it, but for now, let’s just stick with the partner. And I think it’s this idea of what’s this, what changes do you notice or what’s the smallest things you notice your partner doing that you can be grateful for, and it can be things like emptying the dishwasher, doing the dirty dishes, taking out the garbage, feeding the dog.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Changing the bed picking up the kids from school, taking the kids to school, working hard at work. It can go into the gym. I’m a big fan of complimenting effort because a lot of times we don’t control the outcome or we don’t control the outcome [00:29:00] completely. If I go to the gym five days a week, I can control that effort.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I can’t really control how that shows up in my body.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: You brought that up earlier on about thinking someone for going to the gym. And I want to be clear here when you and I say that to each other, it’s not like we’re trying to get each other to look a certain way when we, you and I compliment each other for going to the gym.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s basically thank you for taking care of yourself because your health matters to me. And I appreciate the effort you’re putting into your self care
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: and you look better and feel better when you do work out.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I just want to be clear. We’re not trying to like shame each other into a certain body type.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I don’t want that to, I just don’t want that to come across that way. It really is valuing the effort in self care. And, you often say to me too, you’re 10 years older. It’s I want to be healthy for you. I want to live a long life before you. So I’m going to validate the hell out of your effort there.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I love when you take care of yourself, just like we’ve talked about on the podcast. I love when you rest like that is self care. I’m so [00:30:00] glad that you did that for yourself today. It’s not my problem. I got an hour to myself to do what I needed to do. Great. But I like to catch you in gratitude for things that.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I know you did. And I want to be aware that I saw that you did, even though you might not want to name that you did.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That was a game that I would play for a while.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I love that game. Oh it’s a fun game for me. Cause of course I notice everything, but I remember a couple of years back, I think it was actually
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: during, and by the way, if you don’t notice, I don’t get, but heard about it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s just an anonymous good deed.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That’s important, I think.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: But I remember there was one day during COVID and, during COVID both of our client loads increased quite a bit and there was just obviously very stressful times and there was one particular stressful day. And I noticed that you had filled the protein powder from the big container in the garage to the smaller container on the counter.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I think also had filled up the dog food. [00:31:00] And it was these seemingly small chores that for me was like, Oh my God, thank you. So that was such a huge help and I so appreciated cause that was so loving. That was a loving app.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So absolutely. And I think, to dovetail on that, I think there’s
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And I’m not sure how good some of us are with tone of voice, but, to consider the difference between thanks on versus, wow, thank you so much, honey. I really appreciate you making dinner tonight. It was fantastic. Like it, it’s gotta be heartfelt.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve recently moved in together.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I know that you are working hard in the areas of being partners and I’m working hard and making sure that, I’m meeting your needs. You’re meeting mine. [00:32:00] And every time I see something that I value, I want to let you know, Hey, I really value that because I want that to continue. And if it starts sloughing off and not being noticed it’s hard to stay as motivated and.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It also feels like you see me that I’m seen and my needs are being understood and we are turning towards because that’s another part of the Gottman’s work is turning towards. And all of these things that we can be doing for one another is an effort towards the relationship. And it’s so easy to not do any of it.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: How many times do you think we say thank you to each other in some capacity a day? Honestly.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s funny. I was thinking about this earlier during the show. We are ridiculously polite to each other saying thank you. And please excuse me. And you’re welcome. And at the same time, we. And we can call each other [00:33:00] names and play, be playful.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And so it’s this odd kind of mix. But in terms of your question, I,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: dozen times a day.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I think at least honestly.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I was going to say dozens, but I think that’s too much. I would say. Yeah. 10 to 20 times a day.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. And. I have to say, you are very good at acknowledging, you’re very good at acknowledging the things that I do that I would do even if you didn’t live here.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And that’s the key to it’s not just what we’re doing for each other. It’s any acknowledgement,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: but it’s about motivation.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I think it’s about, it’s not just motivation. There’s some things that you can acknowledge me doing that I would do, even if you didn’t care. So I’m still going to do them no matter what it on some of those thanks for making the bed today.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Cause you say that to me almost every day and I make the bed, whether you’re here or not, I do it for me and for no one else. And after you nap, I go [00:34:00] back and I fix it up.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You don’t do it for me.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: No, I do it for me. I do it for us, baby. However, your appreciation of it makes me feel acknowledged. It’s not about motivation on that part.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s really about acknowledgement. And you see what I’m doing.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think if you want to help the other person to continue doing the positive behaviors that they’re doing, it’s helpful in terms of motivation. It’s helpful in terms of the drops of positive emotion into that bucket.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: See on that
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: validation on that
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: one, I would see that more.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: As a drop in the positive bucket than motivation. Cause again, I’m going to make the bed, whether you think me or not, or whether you’re here or not, that’s really what I’m doing that for myself. But to me, it’s more on that one, a drop in the positive bucket. Cause with enough drops in the positive bucket, if you snipe at me for something, or you’re feeling irritable or whatever, I’m going to have less of a sting with it because there was so much more positivity left over.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And that’s a key point. That, I like the idea of the other way to look at it from a bucket is as a bank [00:35:00] account,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Is that you’re putting deposits in the bank account so that when things get difficult or when you know you’re exhausted and you say something untoward, you have something to withdraw from.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I think that’s a five to one ratio that they’re, they were looking for, which is now the 20 to one now. Okay? We can get clear on the day-to-day stuff saying thank you for the things that. You’re not even doing for the other person that are just your job, how would it sound? So for our listener, how would it sound to be expressing gratitude or appreciation during conflict?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I think you can do it in terms of, I get your point. Thank you for sharing that. I think you can also compliment what they’re not doing,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Thank you for not name calling. Thank you for
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: keeping your tone of voice. Yeah. Thank you for not yelling. Thank
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: you for remaining open to what I’m saying.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That sort of thing.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. I really appreciate we got through this hard conversation. Thank you. That would be a way to do it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Thank you for [00:36:00] having this hard conversation with me. Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: So I think part of the challenge there, and I think we just gave some great examples in that. So thanks for role playing that with me.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I think part of it again is people just don’t know the language to use. What would that even sound like? Yeah. There’s no, we got no costumes on or anything
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: missing my costume, but French maids outfit.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. That’s for another show, baby. But, and now I’ve lost my train of thought. I’m like, okay, what would we talk about?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: About costumes? We don’t actually do role play with costumes. We don’t really have much to say there. That’s okay. I think you’re sexy enough as you are. You don’t need to dress up. You’re welcome. But in, in conflict, Naming. Yeah I’m grateful we’re getting through this. This is really hard.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Thanks for sticking with me. Thank you for not being an asshole right now. Now that’s a double negative.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: But I won’t. The
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: other
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: part is, going back to the idea, which we’ve talked about in the past, this kind of virtuous spiral of revisiting difficult [00:37:00] conversations where each time you revisit conversation, you get more distance, more objectivity, more curiosity and greater clarity about what the triggers were, why you behaved like you did.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Why did you say what you did? Is this about us? It’s about past relationship or your childhood. I think that you can have compliments in there about, thank you for revisiting this conversation with me. I know this was painful for you and thank you for being brave enough to go there.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I also know, cause we went through a period where it was really hard to find the gratitude and the appreciation during the hardest few months before our breakup and especially you were stuck in a negative lens and it was hard to,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: yeah, my gratitude teat was dry.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Oh, you’re a little gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Has that gratitude teat gotten more moist, John
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: thinking about milking a cat
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: too far, baby. I haven’t said that to you in so long, but I guess if you’re watching the video, you just saw him role model that or like role play his own little [00:38:00] teat milking. I don’t even know if that’s a phrase, but that was awkward.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Don’t do it again. Don’t. I’m sorry for those who are watching and not just listening. Once again, you’ve made me lose my train of thought. My point is when
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: you’re
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: in a depressed mood, not you personally, but when you were in a depressed mood, it can be really hard to access gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And I think I want to name for that, that sometimes people are stuck in seasons of their life in which this might feel harder than others. So you could even do a halfway bit of saying, look, I’m really trying hard. And I’m struggling and just know that I’m trying because I think even that could be received really well.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Then again, I’m going back to effort, right? Thank you for trying. Thank you for your effort. I appreciate it. I know it’s hard.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Yeah. So I want to wrap this up by talking about a couple things specifically one November is national [00:39:00] gratitude month. And I don’t know if I know, you have a book, I do have a book on gratitude.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It actually came out a couple of years ago called a year of gratitude and
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: it’s a great gift for the holidays.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It is a great gift for the holidays. Thank you for that little plug. You can find on Amazon, you can find it on my website, joyrose. com, but it is like a calendar style book. And there are literally 365 different ways.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: To practice gratitude. You guys should have seen my dining room table of post it notes when I was coming up with that, because it’s hard to think of more than one way to be grateful and more than one way to express. So if you feel stuck on not knowing how to express gratitude, get my book and open a random page or open that day and let it be a partner practice that you can do.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I just shut him down. I’m talking for a second. I put up the finger. Okay, hold on. I’m still talking. Because I have one more thing to say about that. Will you remember your thought? Okay, cool. But one of the things that is helpful is the most [00:40:00] basic form of gratitude practice, if anyone’s doing like a gratitude journal, you guys can do this together as partners or journal on it and then share later, but you often typically hear okay, write down three things you’re grateful for.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Okay. That’s lovely. And that’s going to still help get out of that negativity bias. But one of the things that was my favorite in the book is think about one thing you’re grateful for and five reasons why. I love going deeper with it and getting clear of why am I grateful for this? What is it about that?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: That makes me feel so good. So the book is a great way to expand your gratitude, awareness, and library of ideas, but use it together. You do it as a family. Okay, John, I hand the conch shell to you.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: But yes, all good stuff. Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: One of the things I was thinking that one of the favorite ways, that I have to express gratitude is.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: With post it notes on the bathroom mirror.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’ve done this for you in the past. And for your daughter. I’ve done it for Molly. The post its for my daughter Molly stayed up on her [00:41:00] bathroom mirror for over a year, I think. And then they gradually withered to dust and fell down. But it was things like, I love you.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: You’re courageous. You’re beautiful. You’re connected to everything. Like just,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I appreciate you
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: affirming and grateful.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And those mean a lot. And before she left for college, she left post it notes on my bathroom here. And, if you really want to take it to the next level, leave some random post it notes on the mirror.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: In the bathroom at work to random people. I
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: once was at a restaurant that had that. Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I was
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: at a restaurant and I forget where I was, but they, the whole bathroom wall was covered in post its and there was like a post it pad and a pen on the, in the wall.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: That’s cool. I
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: used to have that same idea in classrooms when I taught mindfulness in the classrooms is we would do that and have a gratitude poster and do it the month of November for in preparation for Thanksgiving.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And. Kids loved it. Teachers thought that they would keep it up all year long. And [00:42:00] that kind of brings me to the next point of it’s really easy to focus on gratitude and thanks during Thanksgiving. And of course I love the tradition of going around the table and saying what you’re grateful for. I think it’s a great thing, but I have in years past on my individual podcast titled episodes, thanks living.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Like it’s not just something we do once. This time of year that everyone’s focusing on gratitude and we’re extending kindness and well wishes. What if we actually embrace that as a daily habit?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s a daily practice
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: and how much better would we feel because there is enough fucking shit going on in the world.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And that’s really how I feel about that right now that we need now more than. Ever, I would argue to look for the good.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We need to find ways to connect with other people, regardless of their political belief or their color or their background or their
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: differences or economic status or whatever.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We’ve got to connect. It’s we’re humans.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: We got to look for the good. You guys, the
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: in group is [00:43:00] humans.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: We are all on the same team here. It’s imperative that we, I can’t state this enough, and I understand it might not feel natural. It might not feel normal. It might feel contrived at first.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Let that be okay. Even if you’re for the first time learning to express gratitude to your partner, you can be honest and vulnerable and say, you know what? This was weird. I’m thanking you for going to work today. That feels awkward.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Tell them that you’re practicing.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. That’s what I’m saying.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Name it. Like I’m working on this. This feels awkward. This feels weird. Yeah. And I also like it. Sometimes we’ll lie in bed at night and we’ll organically go back and forth, thanking each other for what we did. It’s a great way to fall asleep at night. It’s a great way to feel connected.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: If you want to make love, start with gratitude for your partner. Although we, Oh, then there’s one more thing.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: The
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: gratitude massage,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: one of our favorites,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: John went to about the gratitude massage.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s basically. So [00:44:00] my favorite version of it is you stripped down naked. And then one of you lies face down and the other one gets on top and starts giving a massage for about 10 minutes while expressing verbally all the things you’re grateful for about that person.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And then they flip over and you give them a massage on the front side for about 10 minutes and continuing to express everything you can think of. They’re grateful for who they are, what they do, how they look and how their character. And then you switch and you see how far you can go. Before you can’t go anymore.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: He’s saying, it’s hard to last 40 minutes, which I mean, for me personally,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: you always seem to get through your massage though.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Receiving a massage or getting a massage,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: receiving a massage. They’re the same thing. Receiving and getting.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Oh,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: that’s a Freudian slip. I
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: really like getting massage.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Like for me [00:45:00] personally, the gratitude massage are my two main love languages wrapped into one. It’s every it’s actually it’s every
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: single service. It’s words of affirmation. It’s physical touch.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: It’s quality time and it’s gifts because all I ever want as a massage, like
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: at
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: least
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: four out of five,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: at least.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. It is a beautiful practice. And if that is not something. There’s a meatloaf
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: song about that, like two out of three, bad. Sorry. That was a tangent. He
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: says I interrupt and have squirrels, but you know what you guys, he does just as much. It’s actually hilarious. That wasn’t funny.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: It’s about amusing yourself.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Okay. Are you happy?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I’m amused. Okay. Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Can I continue? You can. Okay, cool. Okay. Not by my turn. Okay.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Now.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Doing a gratitude massage might feel way too far on the vulnerability scale and intimacy scale if you are disconnected. So [00:46:00] how about maybe a two minute gratitude foot massage?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: But I think the key there,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: sure.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah, your feet are always naked. You, yeah, I meant like a natural, just like foot massage on the couch while watching TV
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: or the bath.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: If you’re naked on the couch, you might need a black light before the kids can come sit down on the couch later, or they might come in and I’d be really embarrassing.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Once again, I feel derailed from my thought that I was gonna have. So my point is, If that feels too vulnerable to, to do that, start with something really small, a shoulder massage, a foot massage, close on two minutes, one minute, say five things kind about each other. You can build up to that 40 minute massage.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: That’s ideal. At least for us, that’s ideal because that’s what we know. We like giving and receiving touch. Not everyone is into that, but pairing the touch with the affirmation and the kind words. It’s really a [00:47:00] beautiful practice of taking in the good.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And that’s all the time we have for today because I have to go talk to a client.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: And also wanted to remind you all that we’re coming to the end of our year long master class on how to create an outstanding relationship. And we will be doing it again come January. And it’s every month, one class a month. You get homework. Those classes are about an hour to an hour and a half long. And there are 12 topics that we feel you must have in order to create a happier, thriving relationship.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: So if you’re interested in something like that, it’s ridiculously cheap and it’s available, or you can find out more at love isn’t enough. net.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: And John, I am so appreciative of doing this podcast with you.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: I loved it in this podcast with you.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: I’m so appreciative for our listeners for tuning in to this. I am so
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: appreciative of the listeners too, to those that will, that share it and really seem to like it, enjoy it and get a lot out of it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: We’ve heard from people that are [00:48:00] listening to it several times. Yeah, we’re getting really great feedback
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: and ultimately I’m just really expressing gratitude for our relationship and the growth that we have both done. Cause I couldn’t be happier and I know how much gratitude plays a part in our day to day life.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: Thank you.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Couples Counselor: Yeah. Thank you.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Couples Counselor: All right, guys. We’ll see you next time. Happy being grateful. Enjoy.