Episode #15 – High-Functioning Codependence, or Putting Other’s Needs Before Your Own (Always)
On this raw and revealing episode of Love Isn’t Enough, Joree opens up about a powerful realization that shook her to the core: she’s a high-functioning codependent (HFC). But what does it mean to be a high-functioning codependent? Together, John and Joree explore what high-functioning codependency actually looks like—especially in women who seem to have it all together—and how it can quietly erode your sense of peace, boundaries, and self-worth.
They dive into Terri Cole’s definition of HFCs, how childhood trauma and anxious attachment fuel overgiving, perfectionism, and people-pleasing, and the cost of constantly putting others’ needs ahead of your own. With vulnerability, real-life stories, and therapeutic tools, they unpack the emotional toll and begin the path toward healing.
If you’ve ever felt exhausted by doing it all, unsure of where your needs fit in, or afraid to stop performing for love—this episode will feel like a mirror… and a lifeline. And remember, you don’t have to earn love by doing. You are already worthy—just as you are.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Connect with Joree & Dr. John and Love Isn’t Enough:
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Connect with Joree Rose:
• Website: www.joreerose.com
• Instagram: @joreerose
• Subscribe to her podcast: Journey Forward with Joree Rose
• Join the Podcast Membership: https://joreerose.com/
journeyforwardpodcast/
Connect with Dr. John Schinnerer:
• Websites: www.GuideToSelf.com | www.TheEvolvedCaveman.com
• Instagram: @theevolvedcaveman
• Subscribe to his podcast: The Evolved Caveman
If this conversation resonated, here are a few ways to go deeper:
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About Your Hosts:
Dr. John Schinnerer is a psychologist and executive coach out of U.C. Berkeley specializing in emotional intelligence, anger, the evolution of men, and relational health. He has worked with men and couples for over 30 years. He was an expert advisor on the academy award-winning movie, Inside Out. His online anger management class has taught over 25,000 people how to reduce their anger for a happier, calmer life.
Joree Rose, LMFT is a marriage and family therapist focused on emotional safety, attachment, and healing relationship wounds. she has focused on guiding women to greater life satisfaction and purpose and has written several books.
Full Transcript Here
High-Functioning Codependence (HFC) Transcript
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor San Ramon CA: Hey, dear listener, thank you so much for joining us today, and remember to be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you never miss one of these scintillating episodes.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapist for Marriage: Scintillating
Joree Rose, LMFT: I don’t even know what sterling scintillating means, can you use words that
Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapist for Marriage: sparkly?
Joree Rose, LMFT: I know.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapist: Super informative.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapist: Oh, so exciting. So wait. So I’m John,
Joree Rose, LMFT: welcome to Love Isn’t enough and this is Love isn’t
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Near Me: enough and that’s jewelry. And we’ve got a great show for you today.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapist: It’s all about high functioning codependence. Now you may say to yourself wait, John, I am not Codependent. Isn’t a codependent, someone who falls around, follows around and makes excuses for an alcoholic or a drug addict?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor: Yes. But Terry Cole added the key phrase, high functioning to the front end of codependent and rightfully so. let me share [00:01:00] with you what a high functioning codependent is, but wait it, hold on. It sounds like Julia has something to say here. I have moved,
Joree Rose, LMFT: jump in just for a second. This is a fairly new topic.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Yes. That has come out. Terry Cole, as you mentioned has written a book called Too Much and when. I first heard the podcast episodes that Terry Cole had done about this and therefore got the book.
Joree Rose, LMFT: It threw me into a tizzy, and I’m gonna preface this before we jump in. To really say, this is really vulnerable for me.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor: As
Joree Rose, LMFT: we talk about this, because it smacked me upside the face around, oh shit, this is me. And I just wanna lead with the vulnerability that I have in sharing that I’m already feeling. A little emotional, you might hear my voice because someone who’s high functioning thinks that we’re put together.
Joree Rose, LMFT: We’ve got it all together. And what this definition starts to show is where the cracks are in that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Danville CA: Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And where high functioning does not [00:02:00] necessarily mean healthy, and where it still be causing challenges in our own self, not necessarily in the relationships we’re serving, but to our own self. As you jump in and read these things, maybe we can just pause and give some examples along the way.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Okay. And then we can talk a little bit more about how this impacted me and our relationship and overall, ’cause I did an episode on this on my own podcast Journey Forward with Joy Rose. But what I would really love is to talk about how this shows up in the relationship dynamic when, like here with me right now, I actually have my partner here.
Joree Rose, LMFT: To recognize. What those patterns look like and where ironically it might serve you as my partner for me to be a high function codependent and the implication on you, John, to encourage me to no longer do so because
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Danville CA: Yeah. And we will get to that. We
Joree Rose, LMFT: will. That’s, I just wanna give an overall, off the bat, I’m already feeling vulnerable.
Joree Rose, LMFT: This is a little hard for me and that’s okay. [00:03:00]
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor: And,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counselor: thank you for being here and showing up and, just full disclosure, trigger warning for many of you listening that. This might be a little bit rough because you might hear the description and think, oh shit, that’s me also. And it’s not a bad thing.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counselor: The first step is awareness,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapy For Men: always
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counselor: And only then can we set about to change the patterns that don’t serve us.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapist: So without further ado, let me refer to my notes here about what is a high functioning codependent. So a high functioning codependent or HFC for short. For code for being in the know, for being cool.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapist: An HFC is someone who on the outside. Looks like they’ve got it all together. Successful, driven, dependable, highly dependable. But underneath, they’re emotionally entangled in other people’s problems, emotions, or dysfunction in a way that compromises their own wellbeing. And that phrase is key in a way that compromises their own emotional [00:04:00] wellbeing.
Joree Rose, LMFT: As we go into that I, love that Terry Cole. ’cause you’re gonna give lots of examples of what that looks like. In looking at some of these more specifically, and Terry Cole talks about two root markers that is a quick indicator and the first one is, am icing Yes. To something that I really want to say No.
Joree Rose, LMFT: That I’m saying yes, because I feel like I have no choice but to say yes. But it’s building resentment silently inside. And the second piece is it disrupting my own internal sense of peace. And my self abandoning would be the language I would put on that. So there’s lots of ways this shows up.
Joree Rose, LMFT: I just wanna give those two little easy, am I saying yes when I would like to say no and it’s there for building resentment and. Is it at the cost of my own enterprise? So let’s, now let’s go into what it, looks like in detail.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Near Me: Okay. So HFCs may overgive in [00:05:00] relationships while ignoring their own needs.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapist: Again, a key part there. They may get their self-worth from being needed or indispensable, and they may look like the hero or the rock, but secretly feel exhausted, resentful, or anxious.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Because I said I was gonna be vulnerable here, I’m gonna go in and as you read these, do a little personal check-in.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy: Okay.
Joree Rose, LMFT: On which, if any, or all I felt that related to me. So overgiving, here’s the tricky part. I am a natural nurturer and I truly love to give and love hard to the people I love. It’s only in a recent awareness that I recognized it might have been in, in a I can’t even think of the word, in lieu of my own needs.
Joree Rose, LMFT: So that overgiving that I, value that I do in my relationships because I do love hard. And you could attest to that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy: I [00:06:00] absolutely,
Joree Rose, LMFT: but I didn’t recognize when overgiving was compromising what I needed. And we’ll get into the why this all matters, but just on these three things, ignoring my own needs, getting my sense of self-worth met, looking like the hair on the rock, but secretly exhausted.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Yep. Check check,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Near Me: And so let me comment on that because with men I talk about the rules that we learn in the man box about what it means to be a real man. And I break those down on a one to 10 spectrum. So for instance, self-reliance. How self-reliant are you from a one to 10 scale, one being totally dependent, 10 being completely self-reliant, neither one of which is healthy.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy: And I think a useful way to think about this here is let’s look at giving on a one to 10 scale. And with one being I don’t give anything to anyone ever, and 10 being I give so much to other people that I neglect my own needs and I suffer as a result. And just ask yourself, where am I? On that scale.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Danville CA: And I think for people that are HFCs, you’re at a [00:07:00] 10 on that scale. Nine or 10, nine
Joree Rose, LMFT: or 10, somewhere pretty high up.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Around Me: And so you wanna dial that back a couple of notches, maybe to a six or seven. I think that makes it feel more manageable.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Coaching for Women: It does, and I think for me, what I’ve understood to be a root marker in my relationships helps prevent me from overgiving is one key, component, which is.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Coaching for Women: Is there reciprocity? And I’ve, over the years, especially as a therapist with some of my friends, I found myself in that role as therapist with my friends, which is a fine line of I’m here to support, I’m here to listen, I’m here to guide. I’ll give feedback, I’ll give tools because that’s just naturally who I am.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And. If there’s reciprocity, let’s just say at that dinner out with a girlfriend in which they say, how are you? What’s going on in your life? What do you need? How can I support you? Maybe they wouldn’t use that language. That’d be the way that I would describe it. But some sense of my needs or curiosity about me is being attended to then that’s [00:08:00] good.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Therapy for Women: But there have been times in which there isn’t that reciprocity, and I feel like there I am again, just overgiving for the sake of. Connection for my fear that if I don’t overgive, the connection might not be there. But reciprocity is I think one of the antidotes to overgiving.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Danville CA: Now there’s two other behaviors that enter into this.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Danville CA: There’s five total. So the next one is that an HFC may be a fixer. A rescuer or a peacekeeper, and they’re constantly managing other people’s chaos to avoid conflict or to feel safe in their own physiology. And the final one is they excel at work or parenting while emotionally suppressing their own struggles.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Therapy for Women: Okay. Let’s talk about those two, so that, first one you named about the fixer or peacekeeper. Or rescuer. I think I do all of those and I, don’t think I. This is a fine line. Do I suppress my own struggles? I don’t think I suppress my own struggles. I think I’ve [00:09:00] worked really hard at meditating, journaling, honoring, acknowledging my emotions, my needs.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counseling for Women: However, I can honestly say that when it comes to my family, and when I say family, at this iteration of my life, that is you, John, and our three daughters. I can easily suppress mine in favor of who, whose ever needs, need attention, and whose ever emotions might be prevalent in that moment. That’s where I don’t feel there’s room for mine, because I wanna attend to the other first.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counseling for Women: Is that just being a good mom? Maybe
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counselling for Women: To a point
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counselling for Women: Is it over-functioning? Yes. And May, may I give a little story to highlight one of these? We recently John and I and two of our three girls were at lunch, and this was soon after I learned of all this high functioning codependency. And when I first learned about this it, threw me [00:10:00] into a spiral.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counselling for Women, Danville CA: Like it was the entree point and the breakdown that helped me realize the extent of my burnout that I recently had, which was helpful and yet painful. We’re at lunch and I remember sitting there so worried internally in anticipation of all three of your needs during this meal. And we’re talking like really minor, stupid little bullshit things like is one of the girls gonna find something on the menu that she’s gonna be happy eating?
Joree Rose, LMFT, Counselling for Women, Danville CA: I am micromanaging the emotions of a 19-year-old on their choices within a menu that is wide ranged. I am for the other daughter worried about the potential traffic on the road to get back home before she has to leave to go to work. ’cause we were about an hour and a half from home and worried about the what if she might get stuck in [00:11:00] traffic and how that would impact her rest of her afternoon and her work schedule.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And for you, John, I was worried about. Am I worried about? What is he feeling about what everyone’s ordering at the meal? And if the, drink that someone ordered was gonna make him frustrated for an extra $5 on the bill
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Near Me: yeah, the cost of the meal.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Counseling for Women, Danville CA: Small things that I recognized in retrospect took me out of the moment from enjoying this beautiful lunch on a beautiful day in a beautiful location
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Counseling for Women, Danville CA: Overlooking the ocean,
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Therapy for Women, Danville CA: in which.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Therapy for Women, Danville CA: I’m not even sure what I ate or what I was doing because I was over focused on these small little micro emotions or thought that may or may not have even been true. That’s the key part. I don’t know that you were worried about the bill on a $5 extra drink. I don’t know that there was worry about traffic or the menu, but I was over anticipating.
Joree Rose, LMFT: The concern so [00:12:00] that I could then figure out how to rescue or solve if the concern arose, to make sure everyone around me was comfortable, safe, and happy.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapist Near Me: Yeah, it sounds exhausting.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Therapist for Women, Danville CA: It was fucking exhausting. As I say that, I’m like, wow, joy, get ahold of yourself. And yet I think I’ve done that the majority of my life.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Danville CA: Yeah, it’s anticipating others’ needs to make sure they’re okay, whether or not those needs are real or imagined.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Therapist for Women, Danville CA: And then trying to not just anticipate them, but then in my mind, plan and prepare to solve them so that nobody is upset or hurt. And yet I’m also really good about allowing people’s emotions.
Joree Rose, LMFT: So it’s not even I don’t know how to help navigate others’ emotions ’cause I’m really supportive and allowing and accepting of that. I, don’t even know why. To me, that was just let me love hard on my people.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Ramon CA: That’s a great segue.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Ramon CA: Let’s get into the why, [00:13:00] the roots of high functioning codependency.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Counselor for Women, Danville CA: Oh boy. Here we go. More, more vulnerability guys. Thanks. So thanks for sticking with me in my
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapist Near Me: number one childhood dynamics. If you grew up in a household where love was conditional, in other words. Be good and you’ll get affection or love or attention or where you had to take care of a parent emotionally or physically.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Ramon CA: You may have learned early on that your value comes from being needed.
Joree Rose, LMFT, Marriage Counselor for Women, Danville CA: Okay. Big, exhale for me here. Can I may I, you may. In absence of being overly transparent of details of my childhood growing up, what I can and, will share. I grew up in a home in which there was a good amount of transgenerational trauma.
Joree Rose, LMFT: I’ve spoken before, if not on this podcast, certainly on my podcast, about how my mom’s parents were killed in a car accident when my mom was 16 years old. She was the [00:14:00] only survivor of the accident. Her immigrant grandparents moved in. She had two younger brothers, and this accident has had a ripple effect of trauma for generations, both in my direct family line and.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Ramon CA: Extended family lines within the overall family. No one should have to suffer. It, it’s a pretty degree, huge degree of trauma to be the only survivor when your parents got killed. I’ve always held deep compassion for that and it, I was raised with fear and anxiety because I believe that my mom’s worldview was one of fearing and anxiety, understandably and that dynamic of her trauma.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Ramon CA: Necessitated my siblings and I to support that in a, capacity that in my experience as I’ve grown up and of course all my work in psychology and being a therapist, see some not too super healthy dynamics. And my parents got divorced when I was three. My [00:15:00] dad commit suicide when I was 10. So there, there was a lot that I grew up with around childhood dynamics and understanding parents’ emotions with things.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And I. I would go to my dad’s every other weekend, which I didn’t like going to. This is me being four or five, six years old, and I knew at that young age that my mom was worrying about me over at my dad’s, and I would sneak phone calls to her to reassure her I was okay, and I had to sneak it because I, at my four or five, 6-year-old age didn’t want him to see.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Pleasanton CA: I was calling her because I didn’t wanna hurt his feelings that I wanted to connect with my mom. Partly I wanted to connect with my mom was to let her know I was okay because I knew she was worried about me. And so that wasn’t just about my need for connection, that was me nurturing her worry about me.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Pleasanton CA: This is me being really young, four or five, six years old. There was one day my dad took me to Disneyland that he didn’t tell my mom he was doing, and [00:16:00] I don’t have many memories of my dad, but I do remember that day and technically it should be the best memory I have of him. So what my real memory of that day was, my mom didn’t know where I was and we didn’t get home till one in the morning and almost the majority of the whole day I was anxious and fearful that she was upset and scared and worried about not knowing my whereabouts to the point where I couldn’t enjoy Disneyland with my dad.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Fremont CA: So to this childhood dynamic of where you learned early, that your value. And taking care of nurturing others and my needs or my emotions. I’m sure in a high level we’re met, but if I have this awareness of me at four or five, six years old who is attending to my needs around my anxiety, my insecurities, it was a backwards of a concentric circle of worry.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Walnut Creek CA: That’s not the way it’s supposed to be. It’s supposed to be the parent is taking care of the child’s emotional needs, not the other way around. And yet I, think and I’m sorry, that was your experience growing up and. [00:17:00] While that degree of trauma is rare, I don’t think the experience is rare because as Lindsay Gibson’s book, adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, I think most of the parents out there were emotionally immature.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Walnut Creek CA: And so this can happen whether you’ve got an irritable parent, a depressed parent, a parent that’s overusing alcohol or drugs, I mean anything where they lack emotional regulation skills, you as the young child learn really quickly to pay close attention. To how that parent is operating, what they’re feeling, and you try to parent them and take care of their emotional needs.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Around Me: And that’s, again, not the way it’s supposed to work.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Fremont CA: Yeah. And you learn, oh shoot if, I am too needy, I might be rejected. Or if I am not be behaving well enough, I might not feel lovable. Maybe we adopt beliefs, narratives, whether they’re a capital T true. It doesn’t really matter because I could probably argue that my mom would, didn’t just tell a different story [00:18:00] in those experiences that I was an anxious kid and of course she was there for me.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Dublin, CA: Yeah, chicken and egg, it doesn’t matter. But it created a dynamic in me, in which from four or five, six years old I learned to put someone else’s emotions ahead of my own.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Walnut Creek CA: So the, second root of the HFC tree is hyper responsibility, so you become the emotional adult in the room, smoothing tension, anticipating others’ needs.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Dublin CA: As we just heard from Jo’s lunch story, staying one step ahead to prevent disaster. And over time, and here’s the big kicker, this morphs into feeling responsible for everyone else’s happiness, even as an adult.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Dublin, CA: Yeah. I feel that a lot, especially when we blended our families and it went from feeling.
Joree Rose, LMFT: It was just me and my girls and now you and Molly. I feel with four different people’s experiences, emotions, and needs, [00:19:00] I have felt not so much now ’cause I’m working on that, a great a great need, I guess is the best way I can say it. To navigate four different people’s moods and emotions to make sure everyone was happy.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Walnut Creek, CA: And I never judged anyone who wasn’t happy. It wasn’t like I was some of those parents who are like, oh, if you’re not in a good mood, I don’t wanna be around you. I, never rejected for that. I just felt like it was my job.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Dublin CA: It was assumed.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Walnut Creek, CA: It was assumed that I was the gatekeeper to other people’s happiness.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Oakland, CA: And if I didn’t do my job well enough, then what would that mean for my relationship with them? Was I doing a good job at being mom? It was a heavy burden.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapy Near Me: Yeah. It’s a tremendous self-imposed responsibility and weight,
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Oakland, CA: and it wasn’t always heavy. I think the majority of the time it was on the subtler side.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Dublin CA: Yeah.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Berkeley, CA: I don’t feel like I carried such this strong burden that I came across that way overly. [00:20:00] I don’t feel like it showed up as me being controlling. I don’t feel like it generally took me out of the moment. I think it was so subtle. I didn’t even notice it until recently, which is why that lunch was hard for me because that was more of a recent awareness.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Berkeley, CA: But to me it was, this dynamic was so normalized I didn’t see it as a problem.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Pleasanton CA: This
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Albany, CA: was just, I thought, this is what love looked like. Yeah. I worry about, other than I wanna make them happy, period. So when I say this is what I always felt, I don’t want you as a listener to feel like, wow, joy, get ahold of yourself.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Albany, CA: It was so subtle in my own experience, I didn’t know there was another way of being.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapy Near Me: Yeah.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Newark, CA: Do you have any other observance of me where it showed up differently? I’m just curious because I would sometimes say to you, I’m anticipating everyone’s needs, and you would always tell me like if that’s not your responsibility, easier said than done, but did you ever see me on a higher, lower functioning?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Pleasanton CA: I think in general, I was [00:21:00] almost, for as long as I’ve known, you been trying to get you to firm up your boundaries with, loved ones, with friends, with relationships that weren’t reciprocal. In my opinion, you won’t. I think I’ve always tried to get you to turn up the volume on your self care and.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Lafayette CA: Pay attention to your own needs. And it’s funny because, and we’ve talked about this, that in, in going after it in my encouraging you to deal with your high functioning codependency or slow down or pay attention to your own needs it’s fascinating because there’s a potentially negative impact to me in doing so.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapy Near Me: And so it’s not enlightened self-interest in a way which is interesting. It’s. Hey, I know this is best for your mental health, for your physical health, for your spiritual health. I [00:22:00] think it’s something that needs to be addressed, and I know going into it full well that means less will be done for me.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Orinda CA: And so it’s this in, it’s an interesting dynamic to, to square off against.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, Newark, CA: It is, and part of the challenge with needing a high functioning codependent is I’m actually really good at it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Counseling For Men: That’s the whole thing. Yeah.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Francisco, CA: And so I am really, good at being efficient and taking care of a family in a home and doing all the things and doing it well enough where I didn’t feel it was draining.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Francisco, CA: And again, that was my worldview.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Berkeley CA: And, may ’cause one of the things it’s, you are really capable at a lot of different things. And so for those around you. That are in your immediate orbit, it becomes increasingly easy to just say, Hey mom, will you do this for me? Or, Hey honey, can you [00:23:00] do this.dot because you are better at it than me.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Near Me: And, I think it’s really easy for you to take that on ’cause it feels good. It’s a compliment. And yet if that dynamic continues, it leads to resentment and burnout.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And it. The doing gives me a great sense of work.
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Francisco, CA: And feeling needed.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Berkeley CA: Oh wait. That’s a great segue. Hold on. We, let’s get, okay,
Joree Rose, Marriage Counselor, San Francisco, CA: great.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, San Francisco, CA: Let’s go. Sorry
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Oakland CA: to interrupt.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Near Me: But the third leg of the HFC stool is fear of abandonment and rejection. Deep down there’s a fear in HFCs that if you stop overgiving, if you stop being the strong one, the capable one, guess what? People might leave or you’ll be seen as selfish. Oh my god. S word. So you keep performing, you keep helping, you keep fixing even when it hurts you.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, San Francisco, CA: I’m crying. So for those of you watching the video of this, you’ll see the tears in my eyes that fear of abandonment [00:24:00] strong,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Oakland CA: and it dovetails with an anxious attachment style,
Joree Rose, LMFT: which clearly I have had and we worked on in this relationship, developing a secure attachment. And I think that’s the unconscious root of my overdoing was I need to prove my work.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, San Francisco, CA: And if I stop doing, then what? Then will someone still need me?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Francisco CA: Everyone’s gonna leave me. And that hard, that, that’s a deep fear by the way, people, that’s not a conscious fear, that’s not surface level. That’s deep. And, most of you, if your HFCs probably don’t even realize that’s at the core of this
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Berkeley, CA: and.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Berkeley, CA: It’s interesting because I’ve, seen my mom from her trauma. I, grew up the majority of my life, seeing her as a role model being a survivor, which she was. I can’t take that away from her and doesn’t mean I was healthy. And I [00:25:00] remember I, I got divorced at the same age as my mom and I was determined to not become her in certain capacities.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And one of the things that I did for myself was delving into mindfulness and meditation and going on retreats, which required me to be away from my kids. And that was really hard because being away from my kids felt selfish, and I knew it’s what I needed for my growth and for my feeling, and to be able to get to where I am in my life, even though it’s still always a journey.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Berkeley, CA: My youngest daughter used to hate when I left the house she would hide my keys. She would hide my keys, and at seven years old, would sit on the stairs and bow down with her hands in a prayer position. And instead of saying, nama stay would say, mama, stay to not get me to leave the house. And that [00:26:00] tugged up my heart strings.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Oakland, CA: Yet I knew if I was hurting her by me going on a retreat or even at dinner with a girlfriend, it was what I needed.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselling Near Me: And that’s not selfish, by the way, to fulfill some of your basic needs.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Oakland, CA: And the reason I’m sharing this part of the story is because even though the majority of my worldview felt if I did that, that I would be considered selfish and it would harm the relationship when in fact.
Joree Rose, LMFT: I know at a very deep level that me doing that level of self care and role modeling the growth and the healing and the work I was doing to advance my own sense of self and life was a huge role model to my girls. And the one daughter who told me to Mama stay is the one who’s traveled the world the most, starting at age 15.
Joree Rose, LMFT: So I inherently role modeled a quote.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Good mom does not self-sacrifice for her family. The good mom shows the balance. It’s funny, even though I hold so much emotion around this today versus this story I’m sharing about from 12 [00:27:00] years ago, clearly I’ve already done more of the work than I give myself credit for because it’s, I’m not sacrificing myself in favor of the relationships in the big ways.
Joree Rose, LMFT: But what threw me off my rock or reading about the HFCs, it was the microwaves. I was still not microwave the small ways in it. It was still showing up. So it’s fascinating to me that I didn’t self abandon on the really big stuff, but the small hurt I was building in my own sense of overdoing for myself on the small things.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Francisco CA: Thank you for sharing that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Mateo CA: And the fourth side of the box that creates HFC is perfectionism and people pleasing some combination of those two because HFCs strive to excel because achievement gives them worth and they try to avoid rocking the boat so as to [00:28:00] minimize their own needs or avoid conflict even when their boundaries are being trampled.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Yes, check and check. Again I, don’t think I ever would’ve identified myself as a perfectionist, but I think a lot of evidence could point to the contrary. What do you think? No.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling San Mateo CA: Oh, I wouldn’t say full. It’s, again, it’s on a scale of one to 10, right? So there’s,
Joree Rose, LMFT: I was maybe vestiges
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselling Near Me: of perfectionism
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Oakland, CA: in which I always prided myself that.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Albany, CA: No matter how old my kids were, and that just shows the life stage, right? I would always pride in myself that if someone knocked on the door, my house would always be presentable as if I got it ready for a guest coming over, and I did that all the time. That’s exhausting. That’s a certain level of perfectionism that is unattainable to continue because the house should be lived in and used [00:29:00] and, look that way.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Albany, CA: But the people pleasing, this is for me a, root of my anxious attachment style in which I will self abandon unconsciously some of my needs in favor of connection, even when that connection doesn’t feel good, because the fear of having no connection is worse than not feeling good while being connected.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Does that make sense?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Burlingame CA: Absolutely.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Newark, CA: So it’s this idea of. High functioning for others in spite of my own internal sense of peace, was a wake up call for me to say, what’s that doing to my health, my mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health? And I have since, in the six weeks, two months, that I’ve known about the, oh shit, I’m an HFC.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Newark, CA: I think I’ve already made great strides in. Some of that go what’s your perspective?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Burlingame CA: Yeah, no I, think the awareness is super [00:30:00] helpful. Because I think every time it comes into being, you can ask yourself am I self abandoning? Or what do I need?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Counseling For Men: What, or why am I doing this?
Joree Rose, LMFT: Am I doing this because I have to, because someone told me to, or ’cause I created a story in which I will be better.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Saratoga, CA: Or accepted or doing so, and there are things that no one asked me to do. That’s the silly part. I created a lot of this and I, I love when you said earlier that you very well know that by supporting me in me not being an HFC might mean more work on you. And that’s a really beautiful expression of love and partnership.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Saratoga, CA: Because if I can run this household to the way that I used to, you’re gonna not have to do very many chores and you’re gonna have fantastic meals in a super clean house. And I could see [00:31:00] where that’s a great benefit to walk into. And yet you saw my burnout. You saw my exhaustion. So it was not an easy, I would imagine I’m sure easy ’cause you love me and yet yeah, it’s gonna be saying.
Joree Rose, LMFT: You’re right, you take on more of these chores. So I really thank you for that level of seeing me underneath the, facade of I can do it all because, just because I can doesn’t mean that I should or that it’s good for me.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Tiburon CA: Yeah. And, I think one of the things that we’re both very good about is being protective of each other’s energy.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Around Me: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Mountain View CA: And when we, now we’re gonna move into what do you do to heal this? And the goal really is to reclaim your own energy. And to really watch where am I leaking energy in my life? Who am I giving my energy away to? And I think that’s a really good lens through which to view this issue and what can I do to reclaim my own energy?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Mountain View CA: [00:32:00] Wanna
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Tiburon, CA: say piece on energy? You and I have been talking a lot about energy around the people we’re around and I don’t think we collectively, you and I have ever been more. Aware of the impact of energy on our own nervous system?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Around Me: No. So when you say energy, explain what you mean by energy. I think that’s important.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Tiburon, CA: I’m gonna come back to it from a nervous system explanation, which may not make sense at first, but I am very attuned to the internal workings of other people. It’s what serves me well as a therapist and as someone who’s intuitive and insightful. I can pick up on when someone’s nervous system feels hyper, overwhelmed, anxious, insecure, angry, upset, entitled, trauma ridden.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Pleasant Hill, CA: And I have a very high attunement into what the energy in somebody else’s body feels like, [00:33:00] and I often. Because I am intuitive and I am a giver, and I am in a healing profession, which also makes some of this HFC stuff hard for me because I’ve chosen a profession in which I am surrounded by people’s needs, which I want to help serve.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Pleasant Hill, CA: So don’t get me wrong, I love what I do and I’m great at what I do, and I don’t always know how to protect my own nervous system and therefore my own energy when I’m around others That. Feel dysregulated. So one of the great things that Terry Kool in her book too much talks about is how to literally zip up your own energy.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Concord, CA: So literally imagine you’re wearing like a jacket and you start bottom and you zip it up. And by doing so, you are creating a boundary or a shield. Of self-protection to not let others’ energy seep into your own nervous system, into your mind, into [00:34:00] your body, into your experience.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Mountain View CA: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Saratoga CA: I thank you for that. I, think the easiest way I think about it is emotional energy. So what emotions am I picking up from other people and do I want to pick up those emotions from other people and then they do impact our nervous system. And yeah, I think a lot of the. Ways to heal from this have to do with ritual and visualization to that point of zipping up your own energy.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling San Francisco CA: So let’s go through some of the, yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling By Me: The steps to, to healing this, because the, number one thing in my book is radical self-honesty. And the biggest question you can ask yourself in this question is so incredibly important because we never ask it. We were never taught to ask it, and we just don’t know what the answer is.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Berkeley CA: A lot of times, at least, I didn’t, in, I didn’t in my forties didn’t know what the answer to this question was. And the, question is. What do I need? What do I need?
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Concord, CA: This makes me think about my favorite four questions that Dr. Edith Eger, who’s a 96-year-old Auschwitz Holocaust survivor, [00:35:00] posted years ago on her Instagram, and I ask this to my clients, and it’s exactly that, the fir, the first question is, what do I want?
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Piedmont, CA: Okay. Then the second question is, who wants it? ’cause often, especially as women, we’re thinking what we want is based on what other people want for us and we’re not really attuned to that. What do I want? Or what do I need? Because that feels selfish. Who am I to put my needs or wants ahead of like it?
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Piedmont, CA: It’s for me, I am still working on that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Berkeley CA: Yeah.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Castro Valley, CA: But it is such an important question. And just to round that up, the other three, two questions, number three and four for Edith Egar is, what are you gonna. Whatcha gonna do about it and when, because we can often not know how to follow through on what do I want.
Joree Rose, Marriage Therapist, Castro Valley, CA: But that first question, what do I want? What do I need?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Oakland CA: Yeah.
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Pleasanton, CA: For me, that sometimes feels selfish to ask and it’s hard. It’s
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling By Me: a practice in my opinion and I just think most of us don’t have much practice in doing it. And that’s why it’s really important. And, the other two questions I think that are important to ask here are ask what am I [00:36:00] avoiding by helping others so much?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Orinda CA: Yeah.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Lafayette CA: What am I turning a blind eye to in myself? The other one is where am I abandoning myself to be liked or needed?
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Pleasanton, CA: I have a memory of being about six years old and I was over a friend’s house and there was another friend there, and I felt left out and I, actually have the memory of the decision I made in order how to get them to pay attention to me.
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Dublin, CA: And I didn’t know the word when I was six, but I was completely self abandoning. Feel connected in that group. And I look back at these early experiences and to see how they just become ingrained of self abandoning in the order of meeting somebody else’s needs and thinking that’s what connection is and it’s not.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Lafayette CA: Yeah,
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, San Ramon, CA: it makes me sad.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Lafayette CA: Yeah. Sad for that 6-year-old version of you.
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, San Ramon, CA: Part of it’s, which that leads into the next thing we’re gonna talk about is because I was afraid of having a boundary.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapy By Me: Yeah. Because what happens if you set a [00:37:00] boundary?
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Danville, CA: Oh, people are gonna leave me.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Walnut Creek CA: Yeah,
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Danville, CA: I mean that, that was the story I told myself that if I set a boundary, and here’s the problem is some of the time it actually happened, and I’m going through an experience now in which certain people in my life, I set some very, firm boundaries and guess what?
Joree Rose, Relationship Coaching, Walnut Creek, CA: They’re not in my life anymore. So it is easy for me to actually believe when I set a boundary. People leave. Now I’ve gotta ask myself, is that always true? No. And maybe perhaps those who are not respecting my boundary, as we always say, the ones who don’t respect your boundary are the ones that you need the boundary with the most.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Walnut Creek, CA: And that does not mean I need to never have boundaries. And I love this idea of boundaries being more like a sign versus a stop sign, I’m not available for that, but I’m available for this. And [00:38:00] generally we are wanting to find a way of meeting in the middle, but that’s been hard for me traditionally.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Walnut Creek CA: Yeah. And, I love, love, love this line of boundaries aren’t walls, they’re doors with doorknobs on your side. And, so they’re, about teaching people how you are willing to be treated. And, I love the idea that the people that get most pissed off about your boundaries. Are the ones that need them the most.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Therapy Around Me: And the extension there, you were saying that that fear of, oh my God, if I set forth a boundary, this person might leave me. To which I say, if they leave you,
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Walnut Creek, CA: they want your people,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Pleasant Hill CA: they weren’t part of your tribe in the first place.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Danville, CA: Because ideally, when you set a boundary, even if someone might struggle with it, they could see, oh, that I’m taking care of myself here and it might be hard for me to see you do that.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Danville, CA: And. I respect you and I love you enough to honor this is what your need is right now. Even if that’s hard.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Pleasant Hill CA: Yeah. And, the other thing I wanna say, when I [00:39:00] first started setting boundaries, I don’t know, 20 years ago or whatever it was, I felt like I was being an asshole. It felt like I was being mean.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Around Me: And that’s been. An experience that I’ve heard from clients over and over over, the past couple decades that so, just be aware that if you’re starting to set boundaries and you think you’re being mean or selfish or an asshole, whatever, you know the story is in your head. Understand that’s normal.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Alamo CA: It’s part of the process. I would argue you’re not being mean for setting boundaries and telling people how you are willing, how you want to be treated. It’s an essential skill.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Pleasanton, CA: And I’m gonna add to that. This is something I’ve raised my daughters. From a very young age to do, and I see them now as young adults doing it quite effectively.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Pleasanton, CA: Oftentimes when we need to speak up to someone about a boundary, the belief is if I express myself, I will have been successful in expressing myself when the other person stops doing the thing. Now, most of the time they may not stop doing the thing, [00:40:00] but that does not mean you don’t not speak up for your truth around your need around it.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, San Ramon, CA: And I taught them this from a young age, and I know it’s worked because they’ve had boundaries against me in this way, right? So it’s not just, they’ve just been listening to me. They’ve stood in that space. So if you have a boundary and you’re like, oh, that person’s never gonna stop doing that, so why bother speaking up?
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, San Ramon, CA: Let’s just use it as an opportunity to practice building the muscle and stretching of speaking your truth. Your truth is valid. Even if someone does not change, as a result of you speaking that truth, then you get to form new boundaries around that. And that’s good information for you to have.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Alamo CA: It also means you live without regret.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Around Me: ’cause at least you expressed your truth. At least
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert, Alamo, CA: you spoke up. So I just wanted to add that piece. Okay. Because I think it’s an important component of,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Danville CA: yeah, they might
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert Near Me: not always be met, but still speak your truth.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Danville CA: And the third step to healing HFC Ness is stop earning your love. And this has to do with self-worth.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Therapy For Men: You don’t have to be useful to be lovable. You [00:41:00] don’t have to be useful to be worthy. Your worth isn’t tied to how much you give, how hard you work, or how much you sacrifice. You are worthy simply by virtue of the fact that you are here and you are breathing just like the other 8 billion people on this planet.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Danville CA: We really confuse our self-worth with what we’re doing, and the two should not be tied together.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert Near Me: Easier said than done. For some of us we’ve, which is why I wanted to be really
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling San Ramon CA: clear about it.
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert Around Me: And one of the things that I hear a lot of my female clients say is a good mom does in the blank. And a good mom does that.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert Around Me: And even though I have struggled with some of that in my own experience, I like to challenge my client’s belief system. When I will then say, says who. And normally we’re looking at role models of women from our parents’ generation who weren’t taught about boundaries, and women were more submissive. We’re using a generational paradigm that is [00:42:00] old and clearly outdated.
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert By Me: And I’m not sure any of those, many of those women were happy as Housewives of the fifties growing up with their parents of how it’s unfolded, right? So just challenge the thought of says who.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling San Ramon CA: Yeah. And the fourth major point here in healing HFC is to get comfortable with discomfort.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Near Me: To let other people sit with their own emotions, their own messes, their own problems. Because I, I think one of the biggest problems we have with this younger generation is that we as parents have dove in far too quickly to save them from their own debacle, their own messes, their own screw ups,
Joree Rose, Relationship Expert By Me: their own discomfort and their emotions.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling San Ramon CA: That’s part of their work. And, you have a great mantra that you came across in the past week. Would you share that
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert By Me: your soul. Is your burden, and I’m not gonna always say it’s a burden, but your experience, [00:43:00] your emotions, your thoughts is your responsibility, your
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Dublin CA: life,
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert By Me: my soul, my thoughts, my experience is my responsibility.
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert Around Me: It may not always be a burden one of the things that I know Terry Cole talks about, I talk about this a lot with clients, is stay on your side of the street. Yeah, I love that phrase. And that’s a real clear visual. I love visuals. Around. Are you not on your side of the street?
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert Around Me: Are you getting over immersed in the internal experience of the people around you to the point where you’re taking it in and taking it on as a burden for you to help the Olympics? Now, I’m always gonna be a nurturer. I’m always gonna be a giver. I’m always gonna love really hard. That’s not gonna change as I heal the HFC tendencies in me.
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert Near Me: But what will begin to shift is I won’t take it in and take it on as mine, as much I can hand back that responsibility to say, I love you and I don’t [00:44:00] need to carry this for you, but with the practice of compassion, I can sit with you without me now taking it in and taking it on. So that’s part of the protective.
Joree Rose, Marriage Expert Near Me: Piece of my own energy is to sit with and allow without it becoming mine. It’s nuanced. It’s not always easy. And I’m in constant practice of it because in many ways I think I’ve been working at, for, at this for years and I’ve gotten better. And only recently I’ve realized, oh where, is it still need to be short at for my own internal sense of peace?
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Dublin CA: And why don’t you take the final.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT: This last one here is how do their inner reparenting, and this is, can I be the source of my own feeling? We all want that idealized parent in our mind and our childhood to be the one who was accepting and allowing and giving us that space. And we don’t always have that, but to be able to be that nurturing presence for [00:45:00] yourself what would you say to your own inner child right now?
Joree Rose, LMFT: If you saw yourself as that 6-year-old, how would you speak to them versus the, maybe the inner critic that tells you need to, should do all these things, but to treat yourself like that inner child who is feeling hurt or sad or alone or scared or anxious, what would you say to them? And you can talk to yourself in that way and truly be the source of your own discomfort.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Allow yourself. To let it be okay to be uncomfortable, be the source
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy Near Me: of your own discomfort, be the source of comfort. Comfort,
Joree Rose, LMFT: okay. Sorry. Be the source of your own comfort. Because
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Pleasanton CA: I’m often the source of my own discomfort, but I don’t think that’s the goal here,
Joree Rose, LMFT: to be the source of your own comfort. To allow it to be okay.
Joree Rose, LMFT: To be uncomfortable because I think is what I was trying to say there
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Pleasanton CA: And, this skirts around the idea and topic of self-compassion, right? It’s what would you say to a small child when this is going on? What would your best friend say to you? In similar [00:46:00] circumstances, and I think it’s a really, key life skill to practice speaking to yourself with kindness.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Yeah. And one of my favorite languages to be able to say this is to say, I love you, and I’m not available for that right now. Yeah. Here’s what I’m available for, but I’m not available for that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Fremont CA: Oh, go ahead.
Joree Rose, LMFT: I was just gonna say it’s I can even say that to myself as I do that re-parenting work internally.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Just to remind myself I’m not available to meet everyone’s needs. I am available to love them and be there for them. My work is not dependent upon me, over functioning, and that the people I love most don’t want me to get to that point of burnout and remind myself that they also wanna take care of me.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And sometimes it can be hard to take that in because one of the things that’s been a challenge in my over-functioning is allowing you, John, to do things for me. And if my worth was dependent upon doing things for others unconsciously, then doing for me was hard.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counseling Fremont CA: Yeah. [00:47:00] Allowing, receiving. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking that.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Therapy By Me: Another way to reframe this like I’m thinking of children, right? That why or how can I don’t wanna rob my children of the lessons that they need to learn from life by saving them from their own emotional discomfort. I need them to learn those lessons. As parent, I’m trying to get my children to be more resilient, to be able to go out into the world and stand on their own two feet and bounce back from difficulty and adversity.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Fremont CA: And if we cut off the emotional discomfort from adversity at younger ages, they won’t have that skill. Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT: It makes you think of a recent conversation we’d had in the car where we were talking about some. Kids we know in high school who were questioning what am I gonna talk about for my college essays?
Joree Rose, LMFT: Because there was no challenge or adversity they had to overcome. And it was this kind of turnaround of, oh, [00:48:00] don’t we all want the easy childhood and the life where there’s no problems? And yet it almost became like a negative that there was nothing to talk about in their college essays. So I don’t wish hardship on people.
Joree Rose, LMFT: However, that is where we learn and grow and that. Resilience and the tools that we know are gonna help us down the line.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling By Me: Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT: We need, my point is we need those experiences, so we need to let others feel those things so they can learn the tools to navigate it, to be okay in the emotion, to be okay in the anxious attachment or the, fear, the unknown, whatever it is.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And it’s, I think as I’m showing and, vulnerably demonstrating. Also a lifelong practice.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Pleasanton CA: Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Joree Rose, LMFT: It’s, not a one and done.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Pleasanton CA: And, so overall, what would you say why do this work? What’s, the what’s the chest of gold at the end of the rainbow here?
Joree Rose, LMFT: Oh, I think a few things.
Joree Rose, LMFT: One is operating [00:49:00] from a more healed place that I’m operating out of. True authenticity from a place of love and desire for connection in a way that’s mutual and reciprocal and not in a way that’s trauma informed around over-functioning for connection. It’s an ability to feel greater inner peace, to actually be able to slow down and just be, and not always have to do for the sake of filling time and space.
Joree Rose, LMFT: It’s believing in my own self-worth. It’s I think the list could go on and on Learning the boundaries is important for my own mental health. Trusting that if I set a boundary that it can and will be respected, will help me in almost all relationships. Not knowing that I have to earn love, that I am lovable, not by what I do, but by who I am.
Joree Rose, LMFT: [00:50:00] And. Ultimately it allows me to be a whole self, an authentic self, and ideally get to a role model. The people I love, here’s what I need, and that’s okay. I’m a, I’m allowed to have needs also.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling By Me: Yeah.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And by doing so, I can heal the wounds of the past in which I didn’t believe that was possible.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Dublin CA: And from my perspective, thank you for doing the work.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor Dublin CA: I appreciate it.
Dr. John Schinnerer, Relationship Counseling Near Me: To summarize, the five tools that you need to work on to heal from HFC are radical self-honesty boundaries. Remind yourself of your self-worth or stop earning love. Get comfortable with other people’s discomfort and your own, and reparent yourself. Talk with kindness to that inner child.
Joree Rose, LMFT: So the last thing I wanna say, thank you for sharing those. That list is. You’re recognizing you’re an HFC and you’re like, oh shit, I need to make some changes. One of the ways you can begin is to, by [00:51:00] telling the people you love, that maybe even over-functioning for, Hey, I just listened to this podcast and it highlighted for me some things I’m doing that I thought was out of love, but I realized isn’t serving me.
Joree Rose, LMFT: So just so you know, I’m gonna be working on doing a little bit less in the way that I had been doing things, and thank you in advance for supporting me in my health journey here because. It might be hard to enlist those you’ve been over-functioning for, but to be able to present it from a way of, I’m recognizing this isn’t serving me, and thank you for supporting me, because that’s, I think the crux of what we as an A HFC need to feel confident and courageous to speak up around, and ideally we can receive back from the people we love that level of respect and love and connection.
Joree Rose, LMFT: Regardless if it’s a fear of rejection,
Dr. John Schinnerer, Marriage Counselor San Ramon CA: and if this podcast has been helpful to you, if you’ve seen some of yourself in it please, we need you to leave a review [00:52:00] on Apple Podcasts and feel free to share it with others, because that’s how we get the word out. That’s how we broaden our platform and reach more ears so that we can heal more people.
Joree Rose, LMFT: And thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for holding me in my own vulnerability as I share this, and I’m a big fan of, being vulnerable in service of the work that we do. In, if I can’t role model this, then then I’m not fully doing my job. And that’s not me being an HFC, that’s me having authentic desire to be, real there.
Joree Rose, LMFT: I’m not doing it for the listener to validate me. It really is. I, do have a desire to. Authentically show, this is what it looks like. This is where it’s hard, and this is how I can practice feeling from it. So thank you all for tuning in today. I appreciate it.